Received: from mail-yh0-f64.google.com ([209.85.213.64]:54594) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TqNnY-0006Gb-So; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:52:07 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f64.google.com with SMTP id i57sf2965889yha.19 for ; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=C4anqoaLLARCIDgkuGPcV7w3SZgrAAA61KCRFla/paA=; b=QPPhKvUPRoIwtktUL1wpIlf57Ps/E/cu0Yei2H/mehG4M6t2D8dVYD09RTkjYVcfMm GW2Qx1U0SnxaPj5fm6W+kvz1uDRSVWCRQZgXzDLEN7MmbuinaLweGmD+4cCWuW4+HKUB erHHRdxYfoEj12dPY6Z+IeQInmWNE+4RoSvroSeR4FuyEABY3lY9nfygYZXeLz14Vxv2 7576vw8rSVzEBBBFbgxvySRa5DZ7KfYmHXvWvmWdspwuZarNY7JarES2FPolUie4X6lK Y71O+rPYgCtWVbIiwm3XYi3t6lYHBYW7t3SsxmKvcUJ4/ZBLOHz7qts8vpHoKBQCuvxf ry+g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=C4anqoaLLARCIDgkuGPcV7w3SZgrAAA61KCRFla/paA=; b=lfmhQy2obkVgBLy0lkAurksZytngjqKF4UznjmZeYW8cCFbhGhToew/LYqo/HCeVe9 +nMCg+oC+gzNtkKqbkjyP+skwZqdlK+makAmOHu+7hVZ4TeKZ4/qoq/aJUGUaR41bm7V HDtubs+2uVXRHn4AMYLC4S049l7YsenyCzEt2am1KwSt1/IL51tpBIi8ndgJIPKQyEi+ 7T7KSUGIJWzy1MsTErUd1TqQKGfsyl2c1rzLnil9Zn1XKTJM3w2d6j3OwlEN8DaKbmXO ToEbsCdVnp+tzwinsmp8X5VTIliIVhFlf8ROnzv+fE5H1gJ0ChPsHsvJaoYrPQnibNOq wcXw== X-Received: by 10.49.1.70 with SMTP id 6mr6937687qek.27.1357131109992; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:49 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.62.71 with SMTP id w7ls5597219qer.88.gmail; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.239.41 with SMTP id vp9mr22995752vec.38.1357131108749; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.239.41 with SMTP id vp9mr22995751vec.38.1357131108736; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f42.google.com (mail-vb0-f42.google.com [209.85.212.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h20si14399348vdg.3.2013.01.02.04.51.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.42; Received: by mail-vb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id fa15so14417915vbb.29 for ; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.36.19 with SMTP id m19mr60329203vdj.33.1357131107577; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.13.197 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:51:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4056085.aWTyGVNAzZ@caracal> References: <7602dd88-ce54-4a2a-aa3d-1db84c3c67f0@r13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com> <4056085.aWTyGVNAzZ@caracal> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 07:51:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: "Something besides [...]" translation From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307abeb994af8204d24db52d X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --20cf307abeb994af8204d24db52d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 With {nu}, {na'e bo lo nu ...} is a problem, because there's a huge class of almost exactly identical events for any given "event". This is the same problem as having an outer quantifier on an event. The {lo na'e nu ...} solution is better here. mu'o mi'e la latro'a On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Tuesday, January 01, 2013 19:14:31 ianek wrote: > > I would say {xu do djica lo na'e nu tcidu fi lo kibro lisxra ku'o}. > > "Something other than..." screams for {na'e} in my opinion. > > When it's comfortable to use an experimental gismu, do it. That's what > > they're for. {kibro} even has an experimental rafsi {kib}. > > Except for "ku'o", which closes "noi" which you dropped, I agree. > "Something > besides " can be translated "na'ebo ". > > Pierre > -- > loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --20cf307abeb994af8204d24db52d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With {nu}, {na'e bo lo nu ...} is a problem, because there's a huge= class of almost exactly identical events for any given "event". = This is the same problem as having an outer quantifier on an event. The {lo= na'e nu ...} solution is better here.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On W= ed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, January 01, 20= 13 19:14:31 ianek wrote:
> I would say {xu do djica lo na'e nu tcidu fi lo kibro lisxra ku= 9;o}.
> "Something other than..." screams for {na'e} in my opini= on.
> When it's comfortable to use an experimental gismu, do it. That= 9;s what
> they're for. {kibro} even has an experimental rafsi {kib}.

Except for "ku'o", which closes "noi" which y= ou dropped, I agree. "Something
besides <sumti>" can be translated "na'ebo <sumti>= ;".

Pierre
--
loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji

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