Received: from mail-yh0-f62.google.com ([209.85.213.62]:56766) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TqzSK-0005VR-UA; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:42 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f62.google.com with SMTP id f35sf2675323yha.17 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=oRg1AsrKSFooHhpRUzPQTZyG8ODS6EDPiOzXGoUi/J8=; b=R1g02ZuVlOaQPWi4RP+vqlKXybLNkXXv/yz8XWLLvdQzvpr7QrQVjPSVQjLSNt5WkZ GOb1iiZkLc2CalmWwwzOJ4butm3UFE56uL91yiEwqoriS5sJJYKOMqAa+PH3IAZNpMWV MvZ0K5wdnb3QyETysGTsoLugOQdXQQQ7EIh47JyhiQO+xg6ro1iR6wxtsOz2iMUDvHF1 0tfeIysxhKvD3grsOxyeDTZB7M5I5Z0X+LrsG+cSUwN2bZYvnB9MSLYcOcMaRSWge6+8 2jL7viLnIUVJwDAlIOeBFKAR4dC+Kk4aaTnKpMG28NoMTzsPxhh0JLA98kNOQk3mlO7s dXQg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=oRg1AsrKSFooHhpRUzPQTZyG8ODS6EDPiOzXGoUi/J8=; b=fDRgcQ0sM/8bTtHr5Ms2X7iqmLWWHQL6+zPAICkfAwA3Y7iPg7aGuouCYonEMAHGEc O14j5KBsMW1F49rbfWZ4GGUFdgctL0li33+dPGpZeJXtndZbwCDozK9Z2T5H0BzT7b06 pY8DfuHELr22L7qRY3K75oTeUzMEOEQXYvmCg9UTJD463vnu6qVM+AeC4hihFAqmKRx9 hAaTiCUi5QUdX3rxbgdccelq6vgkE68U3W7KtN35g+gWZoFw1jYvM7RzsM+SKmmGCVPg mU60en6pMY0cfXdJE6DuX+iLW5HTVMpaZSKRc1yc8bWAVhIfJsGSUoIs+xeOoKJkT0bK xkKw== X-Received: by 10.50.158.227 with SMTP id wx3mr17015223igb.2.1357275866037; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:26 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.10.228 with SMTP id l4ls15930135igb.24.canary; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.74.228 with SMTP id x4mr8763793pav.24.1357275865626; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.74.228 with SMTP id x4mr8763791pav.24.1357275865602; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com (mail-pa0-f48.google.com [209.85.220.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e1si10358195paz.0.2013.01.03.21.04.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.48; Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id fa1so9046135pad.35 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.79.195 with SMTP id l3mr150705557pax.82.1357275865460; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:04:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.15.70 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:04:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <999A7608-07F2-4B88-BC4E-A14D56B28CF5@asb.gaggle.net> From: Alex Rozenshteyn Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 00:04:05 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Should/Ought To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04287a17d2af6004d26f6950 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04287a17d2af6004d26f6950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In that case, though, it's not the word acting as the selbri but the phrase. On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > And in fact, by using {me}, just about anything can be coerced into acting > as a selbri. e.g. mi me li ci "I am the number 3" > > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:03 PM, .arpis. wrote: > >> Annie, lujvo and gismu refer to properties of the words themselves, while >> selbri refers to how the word is used in a sentence. Because in lojban >> there is no hard divide (like there is in English) between, for example, >> words which are verbs, adjectives, adverbs, and nouns, lujvo, gismu, and >> even a few cmavo can be used as selbri. >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Annie wrote: >> >>> i may not know what i'm talking about, but the best word would >>> definately either be selbri or attitudinal. >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:45 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:09 PM, .arpis. wrote: >>>> >>>>> ju'o so'i roi retsku .i ku'i ji'a sai mi krefu retsku di'e .i fanva >>>>> zo'oi should fu ma to mu'i zoi gy. I should eat .gy. joi zoi gy. I should >>>>> go to the gym .gy. to mabla me zo zoi javni toi toi >>>>> >>>>> "I'm sure it's been asked many times before; even so, I ask it again: >>>>> How does one translate "should" (e.g. "I should eat", "I should go to the >>>>> gym" (Damned "zoi" rules))? >>>>> >>>> >>>> With gismu: >>>> >>> >>> I'm a little unsure about the proper Lojban word for what I mean here >>> (selbri?), but it seems to me that using "gismu" is overly specific. >>> Similar for "attitudinal" when "cmavo" would apply. Those two categories >>> cover all the bases (since names can't do the job). >>> >>> stevo >>> >>>> >>>> mi bilga lonu citka >>>> >>>> >>>> With attitudinal (although I wouldn't be surprised if there's >>>> disagreement on this one): >>>> >>>> mi citka.ei >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d04287a17d2af6004d26f6950 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In that case, though, it's not the word acting as the = selbri but the phrase.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Luke Bergen <luk= eabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
And in fact, by using {me}, just about anyth= ing can be coerced into acting as a selbri. =A0e.g. =A0mi me li ci =A0"= ;I am the number 3"


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at= 11:03 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> w= rote:
Annie, lujvo and gismu refe= r to properties of the words themselves, while selbri refers to how the wor= d is used in a sentence. Because in lojban there is no hard divide (like th= ere is in English) between, for example, words which are verbs, adjectives,= adverbs, and nouns, lujvo, gismu, and even a few cmavo can be used as selb= ri.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.n= et> wrote:
i may not know what i= 'm talking about, but the best word would definately either be selbri o= r attitudinal.

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:45 PM, M= orphemeAddict <ly= tlesw@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Jon= athan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:09 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
ju'o so'i roi retsku .i ku'i ji'a sai= mi krefu retsku di'e .i fanva zo'oi should fu ma to mu'i zoi g= y. I should eat .gy. joi zoi gy. I should go to the gym .gy. to mabla me zo= zoi javni toi toi

"I'm sure it's been asked many times before; even so= , I ask it again: How does one translate "should" (e.g. "I s= hould eat", "I should go to the gym" (Damned "zoi"= rules))?

With gismu:
=

I'm a little unsure about the proper L= ojban word for what I mean here (selbri?), but it seems to me that using &q= uot;gismu" is overly specific. Similar for "attitudinal" whe= n "cmavo" would apply. Those two categories cover all the bases (= since names can't do the job).=A0

stevo

mi bilga lonu citka


With attitudinal (alt= hough I wouldn't be surprised if there's disagreement on this one):=

mi citka.ei
=A0
--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai = ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
=

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--
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*** This Emai= l was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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--
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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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