On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:28 AM, guskant <gusni.kan= tu@gmail.com> wrote:

Lojban is constructed on W.v.O.Quine's o= ntological standpoint (see the
Complete Lojban Language (CLL), 1.6). According to Quine (1948),
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_What_There_Is
"[...] Now how are we to adjudicate among rival ontologies? Certainly<= br> the answer is not provided by the semantical formula =E2=80=9CTo be is to b= e
the value of a variable=E2=80=9D; this formula serves rather, conversely, i= n
testing the conformity of a given remark or doctrine to a prior
ontological standard. We look to bound variables in connection with
ontology not in order to know what there is, but in order to know what
a given remark or doctrine, ours or someone else=E2=80=99s, says there is; = and
this much is quite properly a problem involving language. But what
there is is another question."

In my words, Quine means:
- the statement "=E2=88=83xf(x)" says that "there is x that = satisfies f(x)"
under an ontological point of view;
- this fact does not answer the question if there is REALLY such an x
that satisfies f(x).

With xorlo, Lojban becomes more clearly conformable to Quine's
ontology.
h= ttp://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo
" [...] we, the BPFK, made a consensus decision that we do not make rulings on ontological or metaphysical issues; that is, we will not
tell you whether phrase X has meaning or validity. [...]"

{zasti} is only a gismu: "f" of f(x); Lojban should not owe {zast= i}
any ontological duty.
At present, jbovlaste does not have Lojbanic definition of {zasti},
but I would suggest the following definition:
{x1 zasti x2 x3} =3D {x2 manri lo nu su'o da zo'u da me x1 kei x3} = =3D "x2
is a frame of reference/standard for observing/measuring/determining
the event that there is y that satisfies (y is x1) with/by rules x3."<= br> Here, the ontological statement {su'o da zo'u da me x1} is in the abstractor {nu ... kei}; the whole bridi therefore does not actually
make a claim that {su'o da zo'u da me x1} (this inference is mainly=
based on the CLL, 9.7: "Example 7.1 claims that the plant grows, but only refers to the event of watering it in an abstraction bridi [...]
without actually making a claim."); the whole bridi is therefore not an ontological statement.

{da} is a variable to be bound, which should concern the ontological
statement of Lojban.

On these conditions, the statements of .arpis. are considered as
follows:
{da cevni} =3D {su'o da zo'u da cevni} =3D "=E2=88=83x (x is g= od)" =3D "there is x
that satisfies (x is god)."
{lo cevni ku zasti} =3D {manri lo nu su'o da zo'u da me lo cevni} = =3D "the
event that there is x that satisfies (x is god) is observed/measured/
determined."
{da poi cevni cu zasti} =3D {su'o da zo'u manri lo nu su'o de z= o'u de me
da poi cevni} =3D "there is x that satisfies (the event that there is = y
that satisfies (y is x that is god) is observed/measured/determined.)"=

Among them, only {da cevni} says "there is god."

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