Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:42694)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBCLPHHXR3UKRBCO65GEAKGQEJFDB42Y@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1U5IoM-0002yn-CM; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:34 -0800
Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id q3sf74681yhf.6
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:19 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf
         :x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id
         :subject:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=NeVLoFdAxBjAD9GIj03rvdr19lp1WI4iqMoZQ1S/zFU=;
        b=sI19n8JShBHqXnDucCflm417wuIqI4ltgQYD2EZwtrcKlWXBemugB2Th0KHIWt8W1G
         bCrFgkOsmgRvayVvLnvgpdaSIR3IyOkPWsChImay8cBgx7bVkf/R2+M4fIJXH4h8DqZU
         o3gE9mSHgSSvlJi0d6sB26/HpR3YQb+YLps8QzFvTHOJLwLtpDychhyl5GQ/LDgJ9PkB
         340+0Y7x0CfjHW8eseYRQhQu6C/5qnrKNa2Qlab74vJTpH4W8gYnkxM9RQyLJEOjIOZ0
         722zbriRnyTf+Qy6yU4sZsSXaAK+TqI04MGdc4wQWdJc66G+LPBu4FDGLDIHBzZcBcdp
         IoVQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf
         :x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id
         :subject:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=NeVLoFdAxBjAD9GIj03rvdr19lp1WI4iqMoZQ1S/zFU=;
        b=biQQ3yNqv36zVjuhw19URSu55PEn4XEk1ub5FWYwIp6jnRQDgLLkIcpk3m+ztVS0ra
         ym9mj/Mp2/q1AghyIb3BQIlQdQc18ZkrMR9FOK8AVv7q8VzdA4B6AdJpYsN8SCirhybb
         EVzDeoNHoOHXBNziKtshqNvBzuCDIaYKTYAr+QSRt4l0RckBfLoFkz0KhV1YYf9jatPy
         J8/k+0qSe12byzYaL3FqE1c7aRtw2JEW/J2HS4CxtXmFPp38FaiBUoZ2BEe8YDAp+slV
         ZZ+XtJfVduDErthRg+16MZD19V6NyEHfVyXiqjvBvE8mROBmkPbALEJC+Kmh41ISES3j
         GTFQ==
X-Received: by 10.49.116.135 with SMTP id jw7mr1242614qeb.10.1360686858718;
        Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:18 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.49.64.6 with SMTP id k6ls109163qes.76.gmail; Tue, 12 Feb 2013
 08:34:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.58.196.166 with SMTP id in6mr10289593vec.27.1360686857196;
        Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.58.196.166 with SMTP id in6mr10289591vec.27.1360686857176;
        Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-vc0-f170.google.com (mail-vc0-f170.google.com [209.85.220.170])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b1si9773380vdw.2.2013.02.12.08.34.17
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:17 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.170;
Received: by mail-vc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id p16so165516vcq.15
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.52.176.6 with SMTP id ce6mr21331727vdc.57.1360686846807;
 Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:34:06 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.58.188.116 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:33:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CADHPcPTrx3BRW+hSCJQU90_krf91KV019M4EewcF9=GN5F=KOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADHPcPTrx3BRW+hSCJQU90_krf91KV019M4EewcF9=GN5F=KOA@mail.gmail.com>
From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: <CAHiXx=Ptb8w6CRrQzoYQ-mF-ivOnLmy3ZcZaBkamXCV1G9Pjcw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question from a beginner
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as
 permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com;       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51a80ca27900b04d5899809
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--bcaec51a80ca27900b04d5899809
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Lee Carlson <lorddraqo@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been looking for a lujvo that will mean: x1 rules/speaks in judgment
> on x2 with regard to x3 by custom/law x4, and have created *paitva*, as a
> construct of *pajni* x1 referees/arbitrates/is a judge
> determining/deciding matter x2 (abstract) and *tavla* x1 talks/speaks to
> x2 about x3 in language x4. Would this be correct, or even approximate? Or
> is there a better construction perhaps *ta'apai*?
>
> The rafsi for pajni is pai, and for tavla are tav ta'a, so "paitva" is not
a valid lujvo, since tva is not a rafsi for tavla (nor can it be for any
gismu: the "-tv-" is a disallowed consonant combination because of
different voicing). It could be pairta'a or pairtavla (with an r-hyphen) or
pajnyta'a or pajnytavla.
Instead of ta'apai, which falls apart (there's no consonant cluster in the
first 5 letters), you can use ta'arpai (with r-hyphen) or tavypai (voicing
differences again, requiring y-hyphen). Longer lujvo are also possible:
tavlypai, tavlypajni, ta'arpajni.
I don't know whether the choice of lujvo or its definition is any good, but
these are the possible forms it can take.

stevo

> --
> The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--bcaec51a80ca27900b04d5899809
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Lee Ca=
rlson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lorddraqo@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">lorddraqo@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">

I&#39;ve been looking for a lujvo that will mean: x1 rules/speaks in judgme=
nt on x2 with regard to x3 by custom/law x4, and have created <b>paitva</b>=
, as a construct of <b>pajni</b> x1 referees/arbitrates/is a judge determin=
ing/deciding matter x2 (abstract) and <b>tavla</b> x1 talks/speaks to x2 ab=
out x3 in language x4. Would this be correct, or even approximate? Or is th=
ere a better construction perhaps <b>ta&#39;apai</b>?<span class=3D"HOEnZb"=
><font color=3D"#888888"><br clear=3D"all">


<br></font></span></blockquote><div>The rafsi for pajni is pai, and for tav=
la are tav ta&#39;a, so &quot;paitva&quot; is not a valid lujvo, since tva =
is not a rafsi for tavla (nor can it be for any gismu: the &quot;-tv-&quot;=
 is a disallowed consonant combination because of different voicing). It co=
uld be pairta&#39;a or pairtavla (with an r-hyphen) or pajnyta&#39;a or paj=
nytavla.</div>

<div>Instead of ta&#39;apai, which falls apart (there&#39;s no consonant cl=
uster in the first 5 letters), you can use ta&#39;arpai (with r-hyphen) or =
tavypai (voicing differences again, requiring y-hyphen). Longer lujvo are a=
lso possible: tavlypai, tavlypajni, ta&#39;arpajni.=A0</div>

<div>I don&#39;t know whether the choice of lujvo or its definition is any =
good, but these are the possible forms it can take.=A0</div><div><br></div>=
<div>stevo</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br>The World is a magica=
l place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn=
ers?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn=
ers?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn=
ers?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<b=
r />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--bcaec51a80ca27900b04d5899809--