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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] On "by standard x"
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On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 5:41 AM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:00:28PM -0500, MorphemeAddict wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:20 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:
> > > I really hope this does not depend on any particular gismu,
> > > because all these places are phrased the very same.
> > > Therefore, I would like to have one accepted interpretation of them.
> >
> > The standard can be any kind of standard, which can be utterly trivial,
> > like "by the standard of me". "Standard of judgment" is just one example
> > that makes sense in the context of {fenki}.
> >
>
> That interpretation is highly ambiguous. "by the standard of me" is
> polysemous
> w.r.t. judgment and comparison. That's the reason why I would like to know
> what it means to put a material object/individual into this place.
>
>
  No, stevo is right.  It IS ambiguous, but that's because you asked about
a specifically ambiguous construction (a bare "mi").  If you had said
"...lo ka mi jinvi lo du'u ce'u fenki" that would unambiguously state you
are judging it by the x1 to be fenki by the standard you consider something
to be fenki.  If you said "...lo ka karbi ce'u mi", you be asserting that
it would be by comparison to you.  By just saying "mi" it could be either
(or even possibly more wild ideas involving "mi").  I merely asserted that
most people would probably assume a simple person/people/nation in that
piece of fenki would assume a standard of judgment.  But if the sentence
had be, for example "lo mi mlatu cu fenki lo mi gerku", you would be more
likely asserting that your cat is crazy in comparison to your dog...
      --gejyspa

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at =
5:41 AM, v4hn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D=
"_blank">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
<div class=3D"im">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:00:28PM -0500, MorphemeAddict =
wrote:<br>
&gt; On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:20 PM, v4hn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de=
">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &gt; I really hope this does not depend on any=
 particular gismu,<br>
&gt; &gt; because all these places are phrased the very same.<br>
&gt; &gt; Therefore, I would like to have one accepted interpretation of th=
em.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The standard can be any kind of standard, which can be utterly trivial=
,<br>
&gt; like &quot;by the standard of me&quot;. &quot;Standard of judgment&quo=
t; is just one example<br>
&gt; that makes sense in the context of {fenki}.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>That interpretation is highly ambiguous. &quot;by the standard of me&=
quot; is polysemous<br>
w.r.t. judgment and comparison. That&#39;s the reason why I would like to k=
now<br>
what it means to put a material object/individual into this place.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>=A0 No, stevo is right. =A0It IS ambiguous, but that=
&#39;s because you asked about a specifically ambiguous construction (a bar=
e &quot;mi&quot;). =A0If you had said &quot;...lo ka mi jinvi lo du&#39;u c=
e&#39;u fenki&quot; that would unambiguously state you are judging it by th=
e x1 to be fenki by the standard you consider something to be fenki. =A0If =
you said &quot;...lo ka karbi ce&#39;u mi&quot;, you be asserting that it w=
ould be by comparison to you. =A0By just saying &quot;mi&quot; it could be =
either (or even possibly more wild ideas involving &quot;mi&quot;). =A0I me=
rely asserted that most people would probably assume a simple person/people=
/nation in that piece of fenki would assume a standard of judgment. =A0But =
if the sentence had be, for example &quot;lo mi mlatu cu fenki lo mi gerku&=
quot;, you would be more likely asserting that your cat is crazy in compari=
son to your dog...</div>
<div>=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa</div><div>=A0</div></div></div>

<p></p>

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