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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:07:48 -0800 (PST)
From: mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Frequency of {lo} and {le}
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Thanks for the reply and link. How many more of that sort of page are=20
hiding around on lojban.org?

On Thursday, 7 March 2013 23:26:32 UTC, selpa'i wrote:
>
> la mudri cu cusku di'e=20
> > Please don't groan about what must be another xorlo question.=20
>
> These questions won't stop being asked if we groan. :) (and until some=20
> additional clarifications are put on the gadri page)=20
>
> > I was reading http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo again, and=20
> > came across these two sentences: =EF=BF=BDIn my post-xorlo writings, lo=
=20
> > outnumbers le by about three to one (at a guess). I only use le when I'=
m=20
> > talking about a specific item.=EF=BF=BD.=20
>
> Some people commonly use {lo} when translating the English article "a",=
=20
> for example when a new object is introduced to the discourse or for=20
> generic uses, and they use {le} anytime they refer back to something or=
=20
> translate "the".=20
>
> However, this is not how everyone does it.=20
>
> In my writings, for example, {lo} outnumbers {le} by.. I'd say...=20
> infinity. That is, you won't find a single {le} in my Lojban. It's a=20
> question of ideolect.=20
>
> (Btw, did you also read the "official" page on gadri?=20
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri  )=20
>
> >I would assume that=20
> > specific objects are talked about as frequently, if not more so, than=
=20
> > generic descriptions. At least on Twitter, where most of my writing=20
> > practice happens, this seems to be the case.=20
> >=20
> > It makes me wonder whether I have misunderstood. Can you either reassur=
e=20
> > me or point out where I am misunderstanding?=20
>
> The most important thing you're probably missing is that even though=20
> {lo} is a generic article, using it when having something specific in=20
> mind is not wrong or unusual.=20
>
> Imagine for example "The game was fun"; sure, you might have a specific=
=20
> game in mind, the one you went to with your friends earlier that day for=
=20
> instance. In Lojban, you can say:=20
>
> le nunkei pu zdile=20
> The game was fun.=20
>
> However, you can also say:=20
>
> lo nunkei pu zdile=20
>
> Which you shouldn't translate mechanically as "a game was fun" or "games=
=20
> are fun" and then be weirded out by (although both are possible meanings=
=20
> depending on context), but rather as "Game was fun". It's a true=20
> statement. If a specific game was fun, then some game was fun. What game=
=20
> you're talking about is left to context, but I think your friends would=
=20
> know that you're talking about the game from earlier that day. Thus,=20
> when translating this into correct English, it does become "*The* game=20
> was fun." even though you used {lo}.=20
>
> In general, the frequency of {le} has been decreasing a lot over the=20
> recent years, while {lo} is by far the most common article of them all=20
> now.=20
>
> Feel free to ask follow-up questions.=20
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i=20
>

--=20
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Thanks for the reply and link. How many more of that sort of page are hidin=
g around on lojban.org?<br><br>On Thursday, 7 March 2013 23:26:32 UTC, selp=
a'i  wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left=
: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">la mudri cu cusku d=
i'e
<br>&gt; Please don't groan about what must be another xorlo question.
<br>
<br>These questions won't stop being asked if we groan. :) (and until some=
=20
<br>additional clarifications are put on the gadri page)
<br>
<br>&gt; I was reading <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xor=
lo" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/<wbr>How+to+use+xorlo</a> =
again, and
<br>&gt; came across these two sentences: =EF=BF=BDIn my post-xorlo writing=
s, lo
<br>&gt; outnumbers le by about three to one (at a guess). I only use le wh=
en I'm
<br>&gt; talking about a specific item.=EF=BF=BD.
<br>
<br>Some people commonly use {lo} when translating the English article "a",=
=20
<br>for example when a new object is introduced to the discourse or for=20
<br>generic uses, and they use {le} anytime they refer back to something or=
=20
<br>translate "the".
<br>
<br>However, this is not how everyone does it.
<br>
<br>In my writings, for example, {lo} outnumbers {le} by.. I'd say...=20
<br>infinity. That is, you won't find a single {le} in my Lojban. It's a=20
<br>question of ideolect.
<br>
<br>(Btw, did you also read the "official" page on gadri?=20
<br><a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/<wbr>BPFK+Section%3A+gadri</a> &nbsp;)
<br>
<br>&gt;I would assume that
<br>&gt; specific objects are talked about as frequently, if not more so, t=
han
<br>&gt; generic descriptions. At least on Twitter, where most of my writin=
g
<br>&gt; practice happens, this seems to be the case.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; It makes me wonder whether I have misunderstood. Can you either re=
assure
<br>&gt; me or point out where I am misunderstanding?
<br>
<br>The most important thing you're probably missing is that even though=20
<br>{lo} is a generic article, using it when having something specific in=
=20
<br>mind is not wrong or unusual.
<br>
<br>Imagine for example "The game was fun"; sure, you might have a specific=
=20
<br>game in mind, the one you went to with your friends earlier that day fo=
r=20
<br>instance. In Lojban, you can say:
<br>
<br>le nunkei pu zdile
<br>The game was fun.
<br>
<br>However, you can also say:
<br>
<br>lo nunkei pu zdile
<br>
<br>Which you shouldn't translate mechanically as "a game was fun" or "game=
s=20
<br>are fun" and then be weirded out by (although both are possible meaning=
s=20
<br>depending on context), but rather as "Game was fun". It's a true=20
<br>statement. If a specific game was fun, then some game was fun. What gam=
e=20
<br>you're talking about is left to context, but I think your friends would=
=20
<br>know that you're talking about the game from earlier that day. Thus,=20
<br>when translating this into correct English, it does become "*The* game=
=20
<br>was fun." even though you used {lo}.
<br>
<br>In general, the frequency of {le} has been decreasing a lot over the=20
<br>recent years, while {lo} is by far the most common article of them all =
now.
<br>
<br>Feel free to ask follow-up questions.
<br>
<br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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