Received: from mail-ye0-f187.google.com ([209.85.213.187]:38829) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ULDvb-0005iS-1X; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:48 -0700 Received: by mail-ye0-f187.google.com with SMTP id q5sf2397955yen.14 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=JC6jfSppGJ42AduIFJr68Kty1rO2O+876WPAlHq9pAc=; b=cwY9dtsGsB7fE3EsrrOHVFzir1pGtN6o2hu9Eipqszl3XdjcdrY5KOXazEQLYlrvld VRyYGKEmo6hpJdlz4NAGrJkBgIxnXGTOfXwZVtyX6OmJYBBMDFjH6CW5DYHusMplK7qy UNk50ESOl0U74VW+2B5WvgKaXyWn9USL4qL7hgYHScrbBCmq7eJ5NgqaIJL1sl7k6fXB f5WsQIEhfIjh+K1p4Fc2ChH/KtBJsICV1N4TwDFoFWz6rcvt/AS2otduzaZbNhb/ocIP eynpq2RLcdkUB1/r123VU38x2qncbaky7u7vEPgrkFjS0W5+rjGCGfYU76QZUSDCZsAI /MqA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=JC6jfSppGJ42AduIFJr68Kty1rO2O+876WPAlHq9pAc=; b=VTTwBYi5B7nKCpyNjyLJr7xQWgEEcHZX1dkhf3uhHgyPB9B4DfmapFIM+J3Qqc9gvR jIDtZZqlXbETtwfhQKjEbKSeQVFvAzzSCf2YPQ0txps3rOMiuEJ8zMBApJGxXReW/JHM clsT+5NQbpp2Pu9aWKSgZ0KbqbsE8h7RPSjCHqjfVfnx9qvCuvZXBpSvXkkDXrSzJ4YQ 130+VM89j99xQCH5w5Sq28hr1g1IE0ktF+zU318kaxdCdN5hHXxbR2QINRcme0RCo+U4 XN0zPhDiyTiLctAoxafpQoKcMJYIGQC+D93rQ9Sl2vZxnY5A4Zp+zDT8rDHV2622Hsn4 judA== X-Received: by 10.50.93.33 with SMTP id cr1mr1393282igb.5.1364481335625; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.76.234 with SMTP id n10ls5746063igw.23.gmail; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.87.198 with SMTP id z6mr19169248icl.27.1364481334522; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x236.google.com (mail-ie0-x236.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o6si778436igh.2.2013.03.28.07.35.34 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::236; Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id at1so7704988iec.13 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.13.100 with SMTP id g4mr7483182igc.44.1364481334400; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.41.37 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1baaa5fc-7aaa-4de3-849c-2ba865bcdacb@googlegroups.com> References: <1baaa5fc-7aaa-4de3-849c-2ba865bcdacb@googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:35:34 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about lo, ku and cu From: Remo Dentato To: lojban-beginners X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c66143d5cf204d8fd11e0 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam_score: 1.1 X-Spam_score_int: 11 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The key point to grasp is the role of sumti and selbri. I see this is no problem for you, you got them right. That said using {ku} to explicitly terminate the sumti or {cu} to separate the sumti from selbri is a matter of taste. [...] Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rdentato[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.2 HTML_OBFUSCATE_10_20 BODY: Message is 10% to 20% HTML obfuscation 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature --089e013c66143d5cf204d8fd11e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The key point to grasp is the role of sumti and selbri. I see this is no problem for you, you got them right. That said using {ku} to explicitly terminate the sumti or {cu} to separate the sumti from selbri is a matter of taste. {lo merko cu dunda lo plise} and {lo merko ku dunda lo plise} mean exactly the same. Using {cu} is the way thought by CLL and L4B. Most of us learned Lojban that way. The use of {ku} is what the authors of wave lessons have thought on #ckule for quite some time. Personally I don't really mind, I just try to stay consistent and use one or the other without mixing them too much. On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Nasya L'Bert wrote: > coi ro do, I have been wondering about the difference between using lo > and ko and using cu. For example, if I want to say "an American sells > this to me" do the sentences "lo merko ku vecnu ti mi" and "lo merko cu > vecnu ti mi" mean the same thing? > > I know that cu means that a selbri is coming up and separates that from > the sumti (that could turn into tanru without cu separating it) And that > lo turns a selbri into a sumti and ko finishes the conversion. .uanaiI'm learning from wave lessons now instead of Lojban for beginners and they > seem to be showing me different ways to say sentences lol. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e013c66143d5cf204d8fd11e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The key point to grasp is the role of sumti= and selbri. I see this is no problem for you, you got them right.

<= /div>That said using {ku} to explicitly terminate the sumti or {cu} to sepa= rate the sumti from selbri is a matter of taste.

{lo merko cu dunda lo plise} and {lo merko ku dunda lo plise} mea= n exactly the same.

Using {cu} is the way thought by CLL and = L4B. Most of us learned Lojban that way.
The use of {ku} is what the aut= hors of wave lessons have thought on #ckule for quite some time.

Personally I don't really mind, I just try to stay consistent and u= se one or the other without mixing them too much.




=


On Thu, Mar 2= 8, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Nasya L'Bert <njkanja@gmail.com> wr= ote:
coi=A0ro=A0do, =A0= I have been wondering about the difference between using lo and ko=A0and using cu. =A0For example, if I want to say "an= American=A0sells this to me" do the sentences=A0"lo= merko=A0ku=A0vecnu=A0ti=A0mi"=A0and "lo merko=A0cu=A0vecnu=A0ti=A0mi"=A0mean th= e same thing?
=A0
I know that cu=A0means that a selbri=A0is coming up and separates=A0that from the sumti=A0(that c= ould turn into tanru=A0without cu=A0separating=A0= it) And that lo turns a selbri=A0into a sumti=A0a= nd ko=A0finishes the conversion. =A0.uanai<= /span> I'm learning from wave lessons now instead of Lojban=A0for begin= ners=A0and they seem to be showing me different ways to say sentences=A0lol= .


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=A0
=A0

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