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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about lo, ku and cu
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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 Content preview:  {lo merko ku vecnu ti mi} and {lo merko cu vecnu ti mi} do
    mean the same thing. Technically, although neither the Wave Lessons, nor
   Lojban for Beginners says so, the full version is actually {lo merko ku cu
    vecnu ti mi}. This closes the {lo} and then flags that the selbri is coming
    up. The reason we don't have to say this is, as the Wave Lessons do a good
    job of expressing later on, is that the terminators can be omitted when there
    is only one valid parse Once you've closed the {lo} with {ku} in the {ku}
    version, there's no way for {vecnu} to bind to {merko} to make a tanru; on
    the other hand, once you've said that the main selbri is coming up with {cu}
    in the {cu} version, what follows has to be that, it can't be attached to
    {merko} to make a tanru otherwise it wouldn't be the main selbri. So in either
    case the other one drops. [...] 
 
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{lo merko ku vecnu ti mi} and {lo merko cu vecnu ti mi} do mean the same
thing. Technically, although neither the Wave Lessons, nor Lojban for
Beginners says so, the full version is actually {lo merko ku cu vecnu ti
mi}. This closes the {lo} and then flags that the selbri is coming up. The
reason we don't have to say this is, as the Wave Lessons do a good job of
expressing later on, is that the terminators can be omitted when there is
only one valid parse  Once you've closed the {lo} with {ku} in the {ku}
version, there's no way for {vecnu} to bind to {merko} to make a tanru; on
the other hand, once you've said that the main selbri is coming up with
{cu} in the {cu} version, what follows has to be that, it can't be attached
to {merko} to make a tanru otherwise it wouldn't be the main selbri. So in
either case the other one drops.

Overall I find {ku} to be simpler to understand, especially for beginners,
partly because it is essentially uniform: there's nothing special about
sumti in the front and sumti in the back when you use {ku}. {cu} becomes
more essential when you get into nesting, where you can elide quite a few
terminators at once by using it.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Nasya L'Bert <njkanja@gmail.com> wrote:

> coi ro do,  I have been wondering about the difference between using lo
> and ko and using cu.  For example, if I want to say "an American sells
> this to me" do the sentences "lo merko ku vecnu ti mi" and "lo merko cu
> vecnu ti mi" mean the same thing?
>
> I know that cu means that a selbri is coming up and separates that from
> the sumti (that could turn into tanru without cu separating it) And that
> lo turns a selbri into a sumti and ko finishes the conversion.  .uanaiI'm learning from wave lessons now instead of Lojban for beginners and they
> seem to be showing me different ways to say sentences lol.
>
>
>  --
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{lo merko ku vecnu ti mi} and {lo merko cu vecnu ti mi} do mean the same th=
ing. Technically, although neither the Wave Lessons, nor Lojban for Beginne=
rs says so, the full version is actually {lo merko ku cu vecnu ti mi}. This=
 closes the {lo} and then flags that the selbri is coming up. The reason we=
 don&#39;t have to say this is, as the Wave Lessons do a good job of expres=
sing later on, is that the terminators can be omitted when there is only on=
e valid parse=A0 Once you&#39;ve closed the {lo} with {ku} in the {ku} vers=
ion, there&#39;s no way for {vecnu} to bind to {merko} to make a tanru; on =
the other hand, once you&#39;ve said that the main selbri is coming up with=
 {cu} in the {cu} version, what follows has to be that, it can&#39;t be att=
ached to {merko} to make a tanru otherwise it wouldn&#39;t be the main selb=
ri. So in either case the other one drops.<br>
<br>Overall I find {ku} to be simpler to understand, especially for beginne=
rs, partly because it is essentially uniform: there&#39;s nothing special a=
bout sumti in the front and sumti in the back when you use {ku}. {cu} becom=
es more essential when you get into nesting, where you can elide quite a fe=
w terminators at once by using it.<br>
<br>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On W=
ed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Nasya L&#39;Bert <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:njkanja@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">njkanja@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>coi</span>=A0<span>ro</span>=A0do, =A0=
I have been wondering about the difference between using lo and <span>ko</s=
pan>=A0and using <span>cu</span>. =A0For example, if I want to say &quot;an=
 American=A0sells this <span>to</span> me&quot; do the sentences=A0&quot;lo=
 <span>merko</span>=A0<span>ku</span>=A0<span>vecnu</span>=A0<span>ti</span=
>=A0<span>mi</span>&quot;=A0and &quot;lo <span>merko</span>=A0<span>cu</spa=
n>=A0<span>vecnu</span>=A0<span>ti</span>=A0<span>mi</span>&quot;=A0mean th=
e same thing?<div>
=A0</div><div>I know that <span>cu</span>=A0means that a <span>selbri</span=
>=A0is coming up and separates=A0that from the <span>sumti</span>=A0(that c=
ould turn into <span>tanru</span>=A0without <span>cu</span>=A0separating=A0=
it) And that lo turns a <span>selbri</span>=A0into a <span>sumti</span>=A0a=
nd <span>ko</span>=A0finishes the conversion. =A0<span>.</span><span>uanai<=
/span> I&#39;m learning from wave lessons now instead of Lojban=A0for begin=
ners=A0and they seem to be showing me different ways to say sentences=A0lol=
.</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></di=
v>

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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