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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 04:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] FA KU
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Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 19:34:31 UTC+9, aionys a =E9crit :
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:21 AM, guskant <gusni...@gmail.com <javascript:>=
>wrote:
>
>> Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 16:10:25 UTC+9, la gleki a =E9crit :
>>
>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 10:49:03 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com>wrote=
:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 1:29:55 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 06:12:29 UTC+9, LordDraqo a =E9crit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you try "fi la lojban ku tavla"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to try it, but {fi la lojban ku tavla} means "talk abou=
t=20
>>>>>> Lojban". I meant {fiku} with no sumti should be x3, and a terbri nex=
t to it=20
>>>>>> should be x4, but jbofi'e doesn't parse it as I expected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering about that in past as well. I can't find that thread=
=20
>>>>> now but the funny thing is that=20
>>>>> {fizo'e la lojban tavla} does what you need.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so does
>>>>
>>>> {fo la.lojban. tavla}
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> {la.lojban. ve tavla}
>>>>
>>>
>>> I guess guskant is searching for stylistic diversity which is indeed=20
>>> present here.
>>> Like
>>> in {fizo'e la lojban tavla} {la lojban} is tavla4.
>>> But in {fizo'e tavla la lojban} {la lojban} is now tavla2 !!!
>>>
>>> BTW, here is the old thread https://groups.google.**com/d/topic/lojban/=
*
>>> *ZBpL4xoUwgQ/discussion<https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/ZBpL4x=
oUwgQ/discussion>
>>>
>>
>> ki'e gleki for the info. My problem is however a bit different from your=
s.
>>
>> From your problem, I see jbofi'e forgets the places assigned by FA when =
a=20
>> selbri appears, and after the selbri, the default place structure is=20
>> applied. I would like to say it bothers mi'a who are not familiar with=
=20
>> European languages and should be a bug, but my actual point is something=
=20
>> other.
>>
>> According to jbofi'e, {fi ku la lojban tavla} means "Lojban is talker."
>> Even if {fi ku} doesn't mean /anything/, it is not a valid reason for=20
>> ignoring the usual rule "that after a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti followi=
ng=20
>> it occupy the places numerically succeeding it, subject to the proviso t=
hat=20
>> an already-filled place is skipped" described in CLL9.3.
>> Even {fi zi'o la lojban tavla} is parsed as "talk in Lojban" that I=20
>> expected. Why not {fi ku}?
>
>
> I would say, because {fi ku} is /not/ a FA-tagged sumti. Which it isn't.=
=20
> It isn't a sumti at all.=20
>
>
OK, from yacc point of view, I agree with you. From a semantic point of=20
view, however, FA KU should be an implicit expression of some possible=20
sumti. In fact, for other sumtcita like BAI or tense, the usage of sumtcita=
=20
means a vague expression (CLL9.9). Both modal-tense and FA are mod_head_490=
=20
of yacc. They should have the same semantic rule.

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<br><br>Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 19:34:31 UTC+9, aionys a =E9crit&nbsp;:<bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border=
-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:21 AM, guskant <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"J9QG=
wj7KkCIJ">gusni...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 16:10:25 UTC+9, la =
gleki a =E9crit&nbsp;:<div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sunday, April 7, 2013 10:49:03 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>gleki.is...=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>On Sunday, April 7, =
2013 1:29:55 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">

Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 06:12:29 UTC+9, LordDraqo a =E9crit&nbsp;:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Did you try "fi =
la lojban ku tavla"?</div>

<div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't need to try it, but=
 {fi la lojban ku tavla} means "talk about Lojban". I meant {fiku} with no =
sumti should be x3, and a terbri next to it should be x4, but jbofi'e doesn=
't parse it as I expected.</div>

</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I was wondering about that in past a=
s well. I can't find that thread now but the funny thing is that&nbsp;</div=
><div>{fizo'e la lojban tavla} does what you need.</div></blockquote>

<div><br><div><div><div>so does<br><br></div>{fo la.lojban. tavla}<br><br><=
/div>and<br><br></div>{la.lojban. ve tavla}<br></div></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>I guess guskant is searching for stylistic div=
ersity which is indeed present here.</div>
<div>Like</div><div>in {fizo'e la lojban tavla} {la lojban} is tavla4.</div=
><div>But in {fizo'e tavla la lojban} {la lojban} is now tavla2 !!!</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>BTW, here is the old thread&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://group=
s.google.com/d/topic/lojban/ZBpL4xoUwgQ/discussion" target=3D"_blank">https=
://groups.google.<u></u>c<wbr>om/d/topic/lojban/<u></u>ZBpL4xoUwgQ/<wbr>dis=
cussion</a></div>
<div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>ki'e gleki for the info. My pr=
oblem is however a bit different from yours.<br><br>From your problem, I se=
e jbofi'e forgets the places assigned by FA when a selbri appears, and afte=
r the selbri, the default place structure is applied. I would like to say i=
t bothers mi'a who are not familiar with European languages and should be a=
 bug, but my actual point is something other.<br>
<br>According to jbofi'e, {fi ku la lojban tavla} means "Lojban is talker."=
<br>Even if {fi ku} doesn't mean /anything/, it is not a valid reason for i=
gnoring the usual rule "that after a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti following i=
t occupy the places numerically succeeding it, subject to the proviso that =
an already-filled place is skipped" described in CLL9.3.<br>
Even {fi zi'o la lojban tavla} is parsed as "talk in Lojban" that I expecte=
d. Why not {fi ku}?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would say, because {f=
i ku} is /not/ a FA-tagged sumti. Which it isn't. It isn't a sumti at all. =
<br>
</div></div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>OK, from yacc =
point of view, I agree with you. From a semantic&nbsp;point of view, howeve=
r, FA KU should be&nbsp;an implicit expression of some possible sumti. In f=
act, for other sumtcita like BAI or tense, the usage of sumtcita means a va=
gue expression (CLL9.9). Both modal-tense and FA are&nbsp;mod_head_490 of y=
acc. They should have the same semantic rule.</div>

<p></p>

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