Received: from mail-qa0-f60.google.com ([209.85.216.60]:61121) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UQFd2-0008DZ-3M; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:26 -0700 Received: by mail-qa0-f60.google.com with SMTP id i13sf140925qae.5 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=zvClSB6iO2WY5jtTX91pWPBEfWWKSwyNIbBKydR43eQ=; b=ZSPFGhCzeincFxL0XCltolhL82tLiHFsMF0OyUJIheKoYcoNT4wJEteYt7E6T68A3v ne5jO3jd57gpnsYMYkNplzhzyLJR2m+yidG1+NzLo8DNzNC9UME62KgSBUWAZHelUf7e 2QJ5XB84jx1TlmByppUzA+N1BMKFx/sfyZRS/tXzPlHve3jJSCFBUaWvuDgbQYqnEg1W 3k1LppmgW1M83JJUKsgVxVpyi6DV5sOKGtU40lOA4k8uXdTqw0BZ5wxNS/sLHV2gkdkL c0dkzuvr701/LSufVFZe3yK1hGXRYEL5JESx6qNUUHpr5AvlSlIUweNnhJw3s8/MJbuM 0Xcw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=zvClSB6iO2WY5jtTX91pWPBEfWWKSwyNIbBKydR43eQ=; b=e9LnPfU3K8FevlMY0LBOWpH5HVAtAYTcWZYCwKrZdn1yyBxSbeCxxi7Nuceo8FOlKd WnACg8SqKRt1mvJV1E21DvWCaCoDpn3xeQLxaVlhw6CxKDPBluH7lHwts2noof4skYko tdyszvYIU06emR4PfTja6VstS2ucNiukopPAItxe/HcVkdI+SqpEEsKFfFjZp7WwfwHQ MQyabqYNcziAIEfe/Aiu9D/Rs6h3MwqkylWrNCQRvM6bGHRJLdbq/tKcdbZQ6fj50AAJ b8XYUgfzIj1fD9S3NlNIhMdtif5mTpOzS4LYGfqllupbe/YOHr8kugedjq2IqSbONJ4L sflw== X-Received: by 10.50.180.197 with SMTP id dq5mr3094570igc.17.1365679513398; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.13.5 with SMTP id d5ls366541igc.32.canary; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.158.1 with SMTP id f1mr4613376icx.6.1365679511441; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x233.google.com (mail-ie0-x233.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r9si174519igl.1.2013.04.11.04.25.11 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233; Received: by mail-ie0-x233.google.com with SMTP id k11so1824496iea.38 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.2.101 with SMTP id 5mr16026227igt.29.1365679511310; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.237.84 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <29cafc29-7608-4040-8d16-9c8652c41741@googlegroups.com> References: <29cafc29-7608-4040-8d16-9c8652c41741@googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 07:25:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Gesture quote From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0118235e26654604da140ad7 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e0118235e26654604da140ad7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This doesn't seem much different from {zoi} or at least ZOI, really, except for the description part, which would be useful in dialogue in stories. mi'e la latro'a mu'o On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:58 PM, mudri wrote: > This is an idea that came to me a few days ago. Sorry if it's already bee= n > suggested or already exists, or if this is the wrong place (the lojban > GGroup throws an error (#554) if I try to post there) or I've committed > some faux pas. > > I think there should be a cmavo for quoting a gesture or graphical symbol= . > I'll call it {zo'ai} by analogy to {zo'oi} but with the =E2=80=98a=E2=80= =99 of {xance} and > {sinxa}. It could have selma'o KOhA, unless it needs something zo'oi-like > for written symbols. > > Slightly more formally, the end of {zo'ai} begins the quote, and the next > spoken/orthographical word ends it. Here are two equivalent examples: > > - la'e zo'ai (*points right*) smuni zo pritu > - la'e zo'ai =E2=86=92 smuni zo pritu > > It does break AVI (audio-visual isomorphism), but when talking about, say= , > sign language (without using a specialist notation), it will be broken > anyway (probably more so, since the written version will refer to an imag= e > outside the text). To stick closer to AVI, maybe {zo'ai} should accept > {sei} (or at least some SEI) afterwards to allow a description of the > action, which overrides any action observed in case of conflict. So we ge= t: > > - la'e zo'ai sei pritu degja'o cu smuni zo pritu > > .i pei .i mu'o mi'e mudri > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3D= en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e0118235e26654604da140ad7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This doesn't seem much different from {zoi} or at leas= t ZOI, really, except for the description part, which would be useful in di= alogue in stories.

mi'e la latro'a mu'= o


On Wed,= Apr 10, 2013 at 6:58 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:
This is an idea that came to me a few days a= go. Sorry if it's already been suggested or already exists, or if this = is the wrong place (the lojban GGroup throws an error (#554) if I try to po= st there) or I've committed some faux pas.

I think there should be a cmavo for quoting a gesture or gra= phical symbol. I'll call it {zo'ai} by analogy to {zo'oi} but w= ith the =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99 of {xance} and {sinxa}. It could have selma'= ;o KOhA, unless it needs something zo'oi-like for written symbols.

Slightly more formally, the end of {zo'ai} begins the qu= ote, and the next spoken/orthographical word ends it. Here are two equivale= nt examples:
  • la'e = zo'ai (*points right*) smuni zo pritu
  • la'e zo'ai=C2=A0=E2=86=92=C2=A0smuni zo pritu
It does break AVI (audio-visual isomorphism), b= ut when talking about, say, sign language (without using a specialist notat= ion), it will be broken anyway (probably more so, since the written version= will refer to an image outside the text). To stick closer to AVI, maybe {z= o'ai} should accept {sei} (or at least some SEI) afterwards to allow a = description of the action, which overrides any action observed in case of c= onflict. So we get:
  • la'e zo'ai se= i pritu degja'o cu smuni zo pritu
.i pei .i mu= 'o mi'e mudri

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=C2=A0
=C2=A0

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