Received: from mail-ob0-f185.google.com ([209.85.214.185]:60772) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UeXxE-0004aR-Hy; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:27 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f185.google.com with SMTP id tb18sf2014671obb.22 for ; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=WTLx7CY67ZM3a4bxPkTijGG5q4Ir6q7sDs69hrwxoTw=; b=kbe8ueQlD4Q9ha1ydaj1ligZGoRnpM5a42mJ06PQFwWl3jJtDo0tszMzx7oaWoLyTV pDL6zcAfU8MlnV6M3ceakckQ1NGZ3Q1t/Igul9pSDZZleb5++/NFw8vnG/xRk52rzx/i EyxMIDWUh5dfY0UclWzAvDMTuM3ODQ9HmiSqY99rZdcLafgDmT/YdpIJF4UI4wTa2bxo GO6lhM6hUH8HdRU5go2b0GOplIfJ7Vcre4yc5u9zDThcGMm1DbHMp9Fi+F0kAdfUdCNY XHGNUUcY8ZjEH7czqI8YJ3znP9kgTLcqXO/aXwjMhS/l64m8OPnKepIRN9s6tvsH3o2P URxA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=WTLx7CY67ZM3a4bxPkTijGG5q4Ir6q7sDs69hrwxoTw=; b=wkF0bxABmYtsIlZPKwSxZk/VcPvlSZIU5YGCgmdqQvfKO8vS+vsBYTHyX51BUa4vUf sWl6jXxabJ82gqVdk3xjN5DKIRBOPn9xfGe0YLRHxqaKlDUTZmHhwDi90GwUUsL3k2h2 lVDeRCDvxpnYVbuJ1im4gTjo23fpb0tImhyw2hczkR5Tq4hTbB1W2EYbu29FgfA6h8H2 5MOPiUkfhs9mr+fYgaPET1xW64Ux7z9VnLBtkkXJxVP6qW+rcFPkNs0yz8vGRa3xOvpU /n67QhfRHke0tZaP0dzC9bczH01AbArni1dE9HrXm+wNAlCuSG1b2z5GwWsZ5VF0T1LR B7Jg== X-Received: by 10.50.176.234 with SMTP id cl10mr1268444igc.6.1369086549984; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.88.5 with SMTP id bc5ls48152igb.30.gmail; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.102.198 with SMTP id j6mr28670196ico.22.1369086549108; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-x234.google.com (mail-ia0-x234.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c02::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b5si1478941igd.0.2013.05.20.14.49.09 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c02::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c02::234; Received: by mail-ia0-x234.google.com with SMTP id l27so7872586iae.25 for ; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.7.66 with SMTP id h2mr6330223iga.31.1369086549032; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.102.74 with HTTP; Mon, 20 May 2013 14:49:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130520214048.GA3114@samsa.fritz.box> References: <20130520214048.GA3114@samsa.fritz.box> Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:49:08 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] questions about lojban From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c02::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122edb26c07eb04dd2d4d14 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e0122edb26c07eb04dd2d4d14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:40 PM, v4hn wrote: > {pa le karci} or {pa karci} (if a number preceeds the bridi you don't > necessarily > need an article, you can think about this as {pa lo karci}) can be used > for that, > an inner quantifier is not needed here. > {pa karce} is rather unlikely to mean what you want. In particular it does *NOT* mean the same as {pa lo karce}. Instead it actually means exactly what {pa lo karce} meant before xorlo was implemented, that is "there exists exactly one car such that ..." Roughly speaking {pa lo karce} says "of the cars that we're talking about, one of them does ..." while {lo pa karce} says "there's one car that we're talking about, it does ...". Either one is fine to talk about "a car", although honestly {lo karce} is fine the extremely vast majority of the time. mi'e la latro'a mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. 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On M= on, May 20, 2013 at 5:40 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:
{pa le karci} or {pa karci} (if a number preceeds the bridi you don&#= 39;t necessarily
need an article, you can think about this as {pa lo karci}) can be used for= that,
an inner quantifier is not needed here.
{pa karce} is = rather unlikely to mean what you want. In particular it does *NOT* mean the= same as {pa lo karce}. Instead it actually means exactly what {pa lo karce= } meant before xorlo was implemented, that is "there exists exactly on= e car such that ..." Roughly speaking {pa lo karce} says "of the = cars that we're talking about, one of them does ..." while {lo pa = karce} says "there's one car that we're talking about, it does= ...". Either one is fine to talk about "a car", although ho= nestly {lo karce} is fine the extremely vast majority of the time.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

--
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