Received: from mail-pa0-f62.google.com ([209.85.220.62]:47296)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBDUJXW4Z74DBBDXW7KGAKGQEOPS2PDI@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1UfgKT-0004dq-TG; Thu, 23 May 2013 17:58:05 -0700
Received: by mail-pa0-f62.google.com with SMTP id fa10sf1248665pad.27
        for <multiple recipients>; Thu, 23 May 2013 17:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date
         :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=4+pwsfqMOMDKe9Ak17uaHJCN3sbIZ1aZHRYe5t34l+c=;
        b=x+SqCkOEfbYo3NbDMEgnSgiUKIktNOAyTXnKza5MniBami15m2T4jE8GN1n3PBmGbp
         eLE7cM9mUG7AFSSr2NoODj4RGy5xWmsxI4ebQg6MOJz13HruFMXO7BZXK310paQoAc4T
         vFIQLSQzkAB1X786nO2xIQnSQTBUiaA4dcEbX6n56kgAimwxvgpfUb223Xdgss7U+oJI
         XJv4Ubnystw0yY7qD4nuIIeAtxngM3HT1YU7hivfly7iYqJFpgSJx3H/bb3m9HNpthCu
         iQOkdcjS2nuv1X8ah4+gtdBnkZrZ8elkSX6HGOtzIhBIFmuG43BfLEEA/9fGT3XUBWvm
         ULDw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=x-beenthere:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date
         :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=4+pwsfqMOMDKe9Ak17uaHJCN3sbIZ1aZHRYe5t34l+c=;
        b=pT6nLUYa7PSzPT7yDqu27GWsEA0vNWFXA/sBCUAHEQvFXNU1b1DfDRAAM8WSXzDwTY
         r9HdKXzFAo5DYQd8pmOcaatFgpwFZvmhmKF/qLNO3Wj+h1/y4HRk1Ei2FCOdkO9gvx4m
         u3wGcw3b5Y/B2pdltmMe7jIqoS5cNZ/2cvkzVh1+W5yReGLDyWGnGgfE/NmcIxAaclhE
         oNhMpZ8E4qbPC16v/0GeZ1U4AMkKKo7WIzwz0fyLbufDIdd0UxN/WcJLeUe/LNOh8ufJ
         tCXHAKW6gA8jJ9Rjum2lbIV0YHLXqm9U5YYf43jTitLOznHzxhzY6vHCSxczFwvwI1MR
         3rFA==
X-Received: by 10.49.106.231 with SMTP id gx7mr1567816qeb.6.1369357071691;
        Thu, 23 May 2013 17:57:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.49.98.166 with SMTP id ej6ls1801460qeb.37.gmail; Thu, 23 May
 2013 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.58.240.116 with SMTP id vz20mr4227722vec.6.1369357070619;
        Thu, 23 May 2013 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vc0-f173.google.com (mail-vc0-f173.google.com [209.85.220.173])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id zg9si1112566vdb.1.2013.05.23.17.57.50
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Thu, 23 May 2013 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.173;
Received: by mail-vc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id ht10so2717977vcb.18
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Thu, 23 May 2013 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.58.22.36 with SMTP id a4mr7099375vef.28.1369357070524; Thu,
 23 May 2013 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.115.68 with HTTP; Thu, 23 May 2013 17:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20130523232439.GL3114@samsa.fritz.box>
References: <dee20715-897b-40fd-b3b1-292017750384@googlegroups.com>
 <d60d9d16-8cec-4ed4-a1b9-5b7ef76846cf@googlegroups.com> <CAMKwHj1U+KZiLhqBFLQSWFC4ctoyauz+Y8Q+Op37O3XBZ5qFvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130523213308.GK3114@samsa.fritz.box> <CAMKwHj1=QZOj_xUqgWVB0EziZzY42rjutKAo1JYwKVTho39StQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130523232439.GL3114@samsa.fritz.box>
From: ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:57:29 -0400
Message-ID: <CALm==BVtRg9Kas-bOBvBsY3Uq6RF-eRipBrkAs5ebix3rev3Og@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: questions about lojban
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.173 as
 permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com;       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a0624c29db104dd6c490b
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--089e013a0624c29db104dd6c490b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Not only have we strayed far from the original topic, but this is not
really relevant to the beginners list.


On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:24 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 04:38:42PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:33 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:
> > > It is neither and you're "argument", that is to say you're opinion,
> > > isn't any stronger.
> >
> > *your
>
> .ua .e'enai je'e .i mi mutce tatpi ca le cabdei vau za'a
>
> > And it's not an opinion. It's an analogy,
>
> So is the object analogy.
>
> > as predicate logic and functional
> > programming are very similar in this regard: they both are composed of
> > functions which take a number of arguments.
>
> Good thing lojban is not predicate logic then, right?
> Ever tried to say "coi" in first order logic?
>
> The perspective you describe is just that: a perspective.
> I like it, but still you shouldn't walk around telling people
> with different perspectives they got it all wrong.
>
> Looking at "p(a)" people see vastly different things:
> - A function/functor application mapping an element a to
>   a truth value
> - A property of an object a which might be part of
>   a large taxonomy of objects that might have that property
> - A node in some semantic ontology
> - A plain and simple statement
> - ...
>
> Not to speak of different philosophical perspectives on propositions.
>
> None of these are wrong. Maybe some are "better" for you,
> but that might be due to your use cases.
>
> > > Did I mention that these comparisons pe'i
> > > are all invalid and irrational?
>
> .i mi ckakla .i a'o do se xamgu
>
> mi'e la .van. mu'o
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--089e013a0624c29db104dd6c490b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Not only have we strayed far from the original topic, but =
this is not really relevant to the beginners list.<br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:24=
 PM, v4hn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_bl=
ank">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 04=
:38:42PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:<br>
&gt; On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:33 PM, v4hn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de=
">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &gt; It is neither and you&#39;re &quot;argume=
nt&quot;, that is to say you&#39;re opinion,<br>
&gt; &gt; isn&#39;t any stronger.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *your<br>
<br>
</div>.ua .e&#39;enai je&#39;e .i mi mutce tatpi ca le cabdei vau za&#39;a<=
br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; And it&#39;s not an opinion. It&#39;s an analogy,<br>
<br>
</div>So is the object analogy.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; as predicate logic and functional<br>
&gt; programming are very similar in this regard: they both are composed of=
<br>
&gt; functions which take a number of arguments.<br>
<br>
</div>Good thing lojban is not predicate logic then, right?<br>
Ever tried to say &quot;coi&quot; in first order logic?<br>
<br>
The perspective you describe is just that: a perspective.<br>
I like it, but still you shouldn&#39;t walk around telling people<br>
with different perspectives they got it all wrong.<br>
<br>
Looking at &quot;p(a)&quot; people see vastly different things:<br>
- A function/functor application mapping an element a to<br>
=A0 a truth value<br>
- A property of an object a which might be part of<br>
=A0 a large taxonomy of objects that might have that property<br>
- A node in some semantic ontology<br>
- A plain and simple statement<br>
- ...<br>
<br>
Not to speak of different philosophical perspectives on propositions.<br>
<br>
None of these are wrong. Maybe some are &quot;better&quot; for you,<br>
but that might be due to your use cases.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; &gt; Did I mention that these comparisons pe&#39;i<br>
&gt; &gt; are all invalid and irrational?<br>
<br>
</div>.i mi ckakla .i a&#39;o do se xamgu<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
mi&#39;e la .van. mu&#39;o<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .arpis.<br>

</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn=
ers?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<b=
r />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--089e013a0624c29db104dd6c490b--