Received: from mail-vb0-f59.google.com ([209.85.212.59]:41471) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Ugcpa-00024C-3a; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:26:02 -0700 Received: by mail-vb0-f59.google.com with SMTP id p14sf1592160vbm.24 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GlvewzDtcbUYm4P1uEvpQqvt1zPrXcPYkQqbT8uOZf0=; b=mx6t4aBFHP/wjG95EyfqA7coD+p1JDsCSbpV2IRGbcjdIP2iFSNyWHmn99qDnRBhPC AUjbxwyburd+dVYWm3URpXCPWPLLnPDI4joP0aFLDkM1KvYCOXJgJUPB/DB2dmC8PqqP /ci9A5mu75Xy2LpHGNtJHFqIpDpzdBG0TBPoBNEQKo//0QwOAPI9bEn/UK+XlPROSs0n y/G07T7v9QflfiyxpyZjN8jw3n3Cj7DBpeS6yhmiWfvUL02OQB4PusqsLQl8mVuY/AEx uO+jKzfBsEa/cbD2JTb5lKxC9TAgXQKh0Nv9tfojPdXOqhp+7cg5Rg9zQOizjfCSrmhC 2qOA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GlvewzDtcbUYm4P1uEvpQqvt1zPrXcPYkQqbT8uOZf0=; b=lz4cznb5gcVSeStt28by+5OEOLqufcE7dIY4mDDFlqBpiv9z5c26rEABx4Fe4+pT2d FMJa1o20SKk4WHxPS3umanmrdUYIlptKus7EkBGm/+RU8Ks6ItgBAMULD83KIOLq9JRE 0k9vPqIEYVE0zrmANigNI41wc6xfT25pYL6bPzWyYGEn3SShJqLCA0HhJ+JvTgaZxypG eU4UQkPA367k4oASSH+3hwWQOUBE9R7NJ29u6d5ODVKDAhkLly9GXEubGEWpdGkN9Em2 Mp8Z1CQc5t/kklaoDgtpLbXzZwh5rk1xCP7M0nx1LkHm4sideee1pK24TH/n2CLutP8S JW6A== X-Received: by 10.50.196.227 with SMTP id ip3mr674213igc.10.1369581951319; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.114.69 with SMTP id je5ls1488193igb.34.canary; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.79.200 with SMTP id s8mr18862748ick.0.1369581950216; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com (mail-ie0-x22d.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v15si452039igr.1.2013.05.26.08.25.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d; Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id k5so16443167iea.4 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.118.39 with SMTP id kj7mr3310560igb.87.1369581949734; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.20.78 with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <519C13CF.1090406@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 11:25:49 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: [lojban] Tags and bridi operators From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0116178e9ad92e04dda0a540 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e0116178e9ad92e04dda0a540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (Gah, I deleted the reference of that footnote without noticing, sorry.) mi'e la latro'a mu'o On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Ian Johnson wrote: > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Betsemes wrote: > >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:39 PM, selpa'i wrote: >> > We know that na(ku), quantifiers, connectives and tenses are bridi >> > operators, but what about non-tense tags? >> >> As I follow the conversation on the main lojban list, I think I more >> or less understand what's a bridi operator. >> >> But I'm having difficulties on seeing how a quantifier is a bridi >> operator. Could someone please explain it to me in mathematical and/or >> computer languages terms? Or maybe point me to the appropriate >> webpage. >> >> mu'o mi'e betsemes > > It depends on how you look at it, really. Essentially you have the syntax > of a proposition, i.e. a relation between variables, some of which may be > unbound, and then the quantifiers bind the variables. > > Suppose there are no constants, and consider the sentence P(x,y). Since > there are no constants, x and y are unbound. So this doesn't say anything, > but it has the syntax of a proposition. Then when you add quantifiers you > take the same sentence and get an actual proposition with bound variables. > For example, forall x: exists y: P(x,y). > > A more clear "bridi operator" way of looking at it is actually that the > quantifiers act on the bridi from the innermost quantifier out. That is, my > previous example has the proposition P(x,y), which is acted on by the > existential quantifier to give "exists y: P(x,y)". Then the existentially > quantified statement is acted on by the universal quantifier to give > "forall x: exists y: P(x,y)". > > *Sorry that although I am a math student, I am not a logic student, so > this is not at all a formal term. Hopefully it is still understandable. > > mi'e la latro'a mu'o > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e0116178e9ad92e04dda0a540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Gah, I deleted the reference of that footnote without not= icing, sorry.)

mi'e la latro'a mu'o


On S= at, May 25, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com= > wrote:
On Sat, M= ay 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Betsemes <betsemes@gmail.com> wrot= e:
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:39 PM, selpa&= #39;i <seladwa@gmx.d= e> wrote:
> We know that na(ku), quantifiers, connectives and tenses are bridi
> operators, but what about non-tense tags?

As I follow the conversation on the main lojban list, I think I more<= br> or less understand what's a bridi operator.

But I'm having difficulties on seeing how a quantifier is a bridi
operator. Could someone please explain it to me in mathematical and/or
computer languages terms? Or maybe point me to the appropriate
webpage.

mu'o mi'e betsemes
It depends on how you loo= k at it, really. Essentially you have the syntax of a proposition, i.e. a r= elation between variables, some of which may be unbound, and then the quant= ifiers bind the variables.=A0

Suppose there are no constants, and consider the senten= ce P(x,y). Since there are no constants, x and y are unbound. So this doesn= 't say anything, but it has the syntax of a proposition. Then when you = add quantifiers you take the same sentence and get an actual proposition wi= th bound variables. For example, forall x: exists y: P(x,y).

A more clear "bridi operator" way of lo= oking at it is actually that the quantifiers act on the bridi from the inne= rmost quantifier out. That is, my previous example has the proposition P(x,= y), which is acted on by the existential quantifier to give "exists y:= P(x,y)". Then the existentially quantified statement is acted on by t= he universal quantifier to give "forall x: exists y: P(x,y)".

*Sorry that although I am a math student, I am not a lo= gic student, so this is not at all a formal term. Hopefully it is still und= erstandable.=A0

mi'e la latr= o'a mu'o

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
--089e0116178e9ad92e04dda0a540--