Received: from mail-ob0-f184.google.com ([209.85.214.184]:35890) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Ui77z-00028Y-KZ; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:59:18 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f184.google.com with SMTP id wc20sf161966obb.1 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oHy7SoRKux4fRMh/Af0hY22v7hw+jKnVMbIhknqVMSw=; b=DsN8VDL+QcR0z+2fXaWh/8IX1YkGls7B9s9nCNod2loCtlNTZmkXlkBOwiKk3LYQMr V00RKKwtp9J8OpprrYfoZ5JMgOKG4MQkEtc5djDYj98Dbv+LZkF7MlcQQ6yl8JeAS/Mf 6fT4kZdTmqndsLjOHZDSpFE6X+ihQ8VOBVN03+z05aX4DNDFLV5MKifG/EZFxbBI99es 0scOmDezxSatjJKCjJiQhj61hi5Rgsmu6whiQd0RMx3aOgiKg5YAJqr74pahY/TnmNJk 5J0QDZcpXXgqOoI027z2YZKbYlPpttUJVRMyzq2H/WShkyLmKGQIa787K9QeDTvTl02Z sqOA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oHy7SoRKux4fRMh/Af0hY22v7hw+jKnVMbIhknqVMSw=; b=wHyK0ZJfde5wJScEqf6IGsACHT1OI12TsKaKdma+qxuOCP8hoBN8Ue7n7JwSV1bsGg nAz2wAgK7YtstGPu/JLwB8OC/4seLOV2yu6I2oK87Oiqbdh2/AaCx7MaueFxR5pTCLLf VUpcu9v3YrGE47WV6RnOXJ62hoh8QJY6Ph5wwDrBazYNt8nXirr/CmNHlcIT8pwhgtV8 CqxCW3WPXGUCwBO2i1FNheXxEp+BlpMnHwne8dCHy2gNx2C9z89cSQki/QTVjfD0jniE DzceJilzyCWWUx6e4+wOONQQVf/M09fBbfknvCMTzhw9OEFgarYTqrC+jAfhkKdFkAY5 s/vw== X-Received: by 10.49.95.137 with SMTP id dk9mr732705qeb.34.1369936740285; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.88.99 with SMTP id bf3ls508599qeb.78.gmail; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:58:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.0.81 with SMTP id 17mr728382qec.16.1369936738881; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:58:58 -0700 (PDT) From: ".iuROK." To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Cc: yurock.tengo@gmail.com Message-Id: <2047750e-cb45-40f2-80c7-8703e84377f3@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Mixing tenses MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: yurock.tengo@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_50_8018681.1369936738458" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_50_8018681.1369936738458 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > That information, however, does not have a direct relation to the truth > value of the main bridi, which the sumti is a part of. It does not matter > how we refer, only what we refer to. I want to stress that I was talking specifically about the truth value of the main bridi. In other aspects, specific form of sumti may be important. One example: {lo broda ku brode} implies {lo brode ku broda}. That may be important if the listener does not know the referent. At least he now knows that {da broda gi'e brode}. If the bridi was {zo'e brode} (which has the same truth value), the listener would gather less information from it: {da brode}. On the other hand, if the listener already knows the referent and that it is/does broda, {zo'e brode} gives him exactly the same information as {lo broda ku brode}. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_50_8018681.1369936738458 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That information, however, doe= s not have a direct relation to the truth value of the main bridi, which th= e sumti is a part of. It does not matter how we refer, only what we refer t= o.

I want to stress that I was talking specifically ab= out the truth value of the main bridi. In other aspects, specific form of s= umti may be important. One example: {lo broda ku brode} implies {lo brode k= u broda}. That may be important if the listener does not know the referent.= At least he now knows that {da broda gi'e brode}. If the bridi was {zo'e b= rode} (which has the same truth value), the listener would gather less info= rmation from it: {da brode}. On the other hand, if the listener already kno= ws the referent and that it is/does broda, {zo'e brode} gives him exactly t= he same information as {lo broda ku brode}.

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