Received: from mail-vc0-f191.google.com ([209.85.220.191]:44823)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBCRZPH6MCMIOBZNFRUCRUBAAYISSO@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Uid3n-00064o-Nc; Fri, 31 May 2013 21:05:03 -0700
Received: by mail-vc0-f191.google.com with SMTP id id13sf614861vcb.28
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 31 May 2013 21:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=+8Lk+uMcGXUcIQq0951MivktYF9D+n8Ei02+NSOcylE=;
        b=XWmRVMhzlQFTcOD84Z+MzDYyTrp4ykOK+YRPnUC/mM86o3wlTdmNEm9z3PbJ1jEnvj
         ahutcKUN12kJJxHGICNr86SjU+/JqdnHPOX13G6O2lOuOnQUVEuWhh826CuM4Ds0EUXi
         VecpDxhwk2t74u7qfE9W6wHcViFQaMP61hcogAz8tQTsvZRD5d2R4/jM1VhkXWiuZgel
         ARrAn+c0lemYXLWcdsHo+DQGd51kN0G88eNgAjEwYKyiDaBfuby3aesyfI78/uc2+VEh
         YzGb5G/gd7coXjLN7m49iaVL/CsNX5GjOz41SkDM7jXHKT06kmPBZMajCx999hnFa3/+
         Fn9A==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=+8Lk+uMcGXUcIQq0951MivktYF9D+n8Ei02+NSOcylE=;
        b=zr9iKBwM5m6+nkyEs76GuQ5N0Ui7Gp8cW6lLGF9wDWoxCsK0pTlmxHO4qqdrfqxM8u
         K5Pvbp5WrVtPNofK7etZjf69Hp4Jvq+XfiPKNQoAIxwaOffb3QeprdkQMeeLBI62kvLQ
         3nzlNJABNtT2rovJ1xOjtNy5b1s77GUwLH4v2pkSZovVa7hONrsPi2j11NNwMQ/N6OAX
         AIVdnXN4jPVbS8gWaRQxcdDPwnS0VmMdPjUN2M5Voz3AZxip+TQXA7I5rjDo6k5ENERy
         AsmHKglXn+tkkCKMlMt8egyfIUspVb+jP7IIGYo6ui4YJL3cUUYTaZ9J4ObIRz6XEL4e
         otng==
X-Received: by 10.49.104.50 with SMTP id gb18mr673821qeb.26.1370059489304;
        Fri, 31 May 2013 21:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.49.41.7 with SMTP id b7ls1206477qel.12.gmail; Fri, 31 May 2013
 21:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.49.107.234 with SMTP id hf10mr1202816qeb.21.1370059487372;
        Fri, 31 May 2013 21:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 21:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <38de2d1d-0e56-4df5-8a8f-d7015cf68c0c@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <2470213.ASzgySGjfC@caracal>
References: <20130522055026.ed095595fb270e1ddf380903@gmail.com> <CAO7tK2ey4FBH-4BO-FrvzO3prupQrZp2HeEPwNzx4v4X5kbeoA@mail.gmail.com> <20130531221133.683532ff18d4d42f87320a4b@gmail.com>
 <2470213.ASzgySGjfC@caracal>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban sounds and Wikipedia article about
 those sounds
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_689_8682010.1370059487011"
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

------=_Part_689_8682010.1370059487011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Saturday, June 1, 2013 4:53:28 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>
> On Friday, May 31, 2013 22:11:33 Daeldir wrote:=20
> > Also, about the =93r=94 (I have a long story with the =93r=94 ;-)), it =
points to=20
> an=20
> > alveolar tap. I thought it was an alveolar trill! My mistake (if it is=
=20
> one)=20
> > comes from [
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban#Phonology_and_orthography],=20
> > I guess, where an alveolar trill is given for the =93r=94. And it had=
=20
> something=20
> > to do with the spanish =93r=94, too, but I don't remember where I did r=
ead=20
> > that, and anyway, on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R], we can see that=
=20
> both=20
> > sound are used in spanish (so, it was not precise, but not false to do=
=20
> that=20
> > kind of comparison). Well, I would like to know what is the =93best=94 =
sound=20
> > (as the two are correct, thank to lojban laxism about sounds=20
> > differentiation). First, to point it as an example, second, to correct=
=20
> any=20
> > =93prefered way=94 that I could have put in the french translation (as =
the=20
> > french =93r=94 is really different from both sounds, I spent some time =
on=20
> it).=20
>
> Both the tap and the trill are valid "r" sounds, and are allophones in=20
> Lojban=20
> (unlike Spanish, where they are two different phonemes between vowels). M=
y=20
> pronunciation rule is something like this: a trill at the beginning or en=
d=20
> of=20
> a word, a tap between vowels, a trill before a consonant, a tap after a=
=20
> consonant, and as in English "mercy" between two consonants.=20


What? Is english=20

>
>
> Pierre=20
> --=20
> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa=20
>
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den=
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



------=_Part_689_8682010.1370059487011
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Saturday, June 1, 2013 4:53:28 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Friday, May 31, 2013 22:11:33 D=
aeldir wrote:
<br>&gt; Also, about the =93r=94 (I have a long story with the =93r=94 ;-))=
, it points to an
<br>&gt; alveolar tap. I thought it was an alveolar trill! My mistake (if i=
t is one)
<br>&gt; comes from [<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban#Phonolo=
gy_and_orthography" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Loj=
ban#Phonology_and_<wbr>orthography</a>],
<br>&gt; I guess, where an alveolar trill is given for the =93r=94. And it =
had something
<br>&gt; to do with the spanish =93r=94, too, but I don't remember where I =
did read
<br>&gt; that, and anyway, on [<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>R</a>], we can see that =
both
<br>&gt; sound are used in spanish (so, it was not precise, but not false t=
o do that
<br>&gt; kind of comparison). Well, I would like to know what is the =93bes=
t=94 sound
<br>&gt; (as the two are correct, thank to lojban laxism about sounds
<br>&gt; differentiation). First, to point it as an example, second, to cor=
rect any
<br>&gt; =93prefered way=94 that I could have put in the french translation=
 (as the
<br>&gt; french =93r=94 is really different from both sounds, I spent some =
time on it).
<br>
<br>Both the tap and the trill are valid "r" sounds, and are allophones in =
Lojban=20
<br>(unlike Spanish, where they are two different phonemes between vowels).=
 My=20
<br>pronunciation rule is something like this: a trill at the beginning or =
end of=20
<br>a word, a tap between vowels, a trill before a consonant, a tap after a=
=20
<br>consonant, and as in English "mercy" between two consonants. </blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>What? Is english&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>Pierre
<br>--=20
<br>li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa
<br>
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn=
ers?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<b=
r />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

------=_Part_689_8682010.1370059487011--