Received: from mail-ye0-f192.google.com ([209.85.213.192]:34794) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UuNS3-0007XS-FS; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:40 -0700 Received: by mail-ye0-f192.google.com with SMTP id m15sf32653yen.29 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=G5pOj70UioqaDxXFwt1nfkOLXqlCuwV0JUZ3IJaC5Rk=; b=QaE3Hh5ZyWJcql7J6CUKLP4x1dHjA5Ykwh5KK8KhHbTXcYPkLCh5WeNESqwA0lTWvu EJ3nc97xzpeduCtG6UMU3DM5y2AITAe3u6IrxHwLfrH/R8rBvjGw4RmTA1W/KHYLMwmF CzYN2+Bd5vYZQEW9wTyVTfwcBp/IFfGPLMwSGrmQnjeH2fOAOJKZPe3DVQqi9g4rr6Ay k/mOTdH2onQzPtMisNEOJce8QUIMgPnliLeqXYK73G/jXBHgMkTV6eWw2YiuDj3CM5TI laH0ZaTYLC7mGST2vGUd/gFwJ66ta09kGRQmwrWMXXugDFpl3Z1Lz29iuOckp9qPYnK8 E8+A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=G5pOj70UioqaDxXFwt1nfkOLXqlCuwV0JUZ3IJaC5Rk=; b=aaWQWd7WGWnmbFevP7a1f4X37mZZkn7HxyZkZ+s2eG1ssEK1akxHrwTwQYNTsO/wxz LyWXeDMSJYuYs867QC9aUszZCf6djw0QdvdsfmKyxgnok6Urk/d2oQ9TgpTxnoJmGf5s 3o6r/LSY7+tSIpa1NiTHxTWJNyiLEAuqMy4iaxEuPE0anRojJ6E+D9ZR7UqHQYO6B05k ycWQshUCaKSoycIieFJ6y8WSLMItymN8Vbxhnk+kC385JKV4KlWGiXcqOrFK+wYuiUsr fRsDTaV3+Ctu8y2E3w82prx+29C58oGe6RDrbXWaMSPCl7pGriRulZr2qfWMjBunvZc2 dDAg== X-Received: by 10.50.124.66 with SMTP id mg2mr39398igb.16.1372859424491; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.85.43 with SMTP id e11ls3018607igz.35.canary; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.121.4 with SMTP id lg4mr204420pab.41.1372859422976; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x235.google.com (mail-pd0-x235.google.com [2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sb8si2153415pac.2.2013.07.03.06.50.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235; Received: by mail-pd0-x235.google.com with SMTP id 14so116360pdj.26 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.191.36 with SMTP id gv4mr1025419pbc.67.1372859422862; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.254.197 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 15:50:22 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about tense From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Fr=F6jd?= To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c41839f2b604e09bbeac X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8ff1c41839f2b604e09bbeac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ok, but I'm still not convinced. But first lets split the sentence into two propositions: 1. {mi baze'upu bajra} specify in which time interval my running takes place. No problem to understand and we could as well simplify this into just {mi ze'u bajra} to get to the point. 2. {mi co'a bajra} says that in the beginning of some unspecified interval goi X I start running. Case I: Is the interval X identical to {ze'u}? In this case the event of my running must be in the beginning of {ze'u}. Case II: Is the interval X not specified in the bridi at all? In this case the beginning of running takes place in some unspecified interval and the interval {ze'u} says that this running takes place for a long time interval in the beginning of the unspecified interval. Ok, so which interpretation do you choose? mu'omi'e jongausib 2013/7/3 Michael Turniansky > Well, the way I would interpret that sentence is "I will be having > started to run, for a long time" That is to say, I interpret it as mi ba > ze'u (pu (co'a bajra)). See for example 10.3.16 That is, I would > interpret all tenses as going outward from the selbri. But reasonable > people may disagree with me. And so may unreasonable ones. I live it up > to you to interpret which category the toltu'i be mi are in. > > --gejyspa > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:42 AM, jongausib wrote: > >> >> What is the proper interpretation of the sentence {mi baze'upu co'a >> bajra}? >> >> 1. That the "start running-predicate" takes place through the whole >> intervall, which probably means that the start running intervall is a part >> of some other unspecified intervall. >> >> or >> >> 2. That I start running in the beginning of the intervall {baze'upu}. >> >> or something else? >> >> >> I couldn't figure this out by reading CLL or BPFK sections, so please >> help! >> >> mu'omi'e jongausib >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --e89a8ff1c41839f2b604e09bbeac Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, but I'm still not convinced. But first lets s= plit the sentence into two propositions:

1. {mi baze'= upu bajra} specify in which time interval my running takes place. No proble= m to understand and we could as well simplify this into just {mi ze'u b= ajra} to get to the point.

2. {mi co'a bajra} says that in the beginning of some un= specified interval goi X I start running.

Case I: Is the interval X= identical to {ze'u}? In this case the event of my running must be in t= he beginning of {ze'u}.

Case II: Is the interval X not specified in the bridi at all= ? In this case the beginning of running takes place in some unspecified int= erval and the interval {ze'u} says that this running takes place for a = long time interval in the beginning of the unspecified interval.


Ok, so which interpretation do you choose?

=
mu'omi'e jongausib
<= br>
2013/7/3 Michael Turniansky <mturnia= nsky@gmail.com>
=A0 Well, the way I would i= nterpret that sentence is "I will be having started to run, for a long= time" That is to say, I interpret it as mi ba ze'u (pu (co'a = bajra)). =A0 See for example 10.3.16 =A0That is, I would interpret all tens= es as going outward from the selbri. =A0But reasonable people may disagree = with me. =A0And so may unreasonable ones. =A0I live it up to you to interpr= et which category the toltu'i be mi =A0are in.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa



On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:42 A= M, jongausib <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the proper interpretation of the= sentence {mi baze'upu co'a bajra}?

1. That the "start = running-predicate" takes place through the whole intervall, which prob= ably means that the start running intervall is a part of some other unspeci= fied intervall.

or

2. That I start running in the beginning of the intervall {ba= ze'upu}.

or something else?


I couldn't figure thi= s out by reading CLL or BPFK sections, so please help!

mu'omi= 9;e jongausib

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=A0
=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=A0
=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
--e89a8ff1c41839f2b604e09bbeac--