Yes, if you say "mi sutra je jipci ko'a" (or= equivalently, "mi sutra gi'e jipci vau ko'a", then ko= 9;a better darn well refer to some abstraction of something that happens qu= ickly that is also a chicken breed. =A0 This is not likely to be possible i= n any universe. =A0However, all is not lost, because, a human will understa= nd that in absence of the the x2(s), the sentence means "mi sutra be z= o'e be'o je jipci be zo'e"/"mi sutra be zo'e gi&#= 39;e jipci be zo'e", so "mi sutra je jipci" is a perfect= ly fine sentence to say, provided you are a fast chicken, iesk (and a darn = intelligent one who can write letters on the lojban list).

=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

On Thu, Oc= t 31, 2013 at 2:25 PM, iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de> wrote:

.i je zei .anste

And= again I am all of a sudden confused by the simplest Lojbanic expressions. = Help!

I understand that, in a tanru of the form {[brodi] brode JA broda}, the= place structures of {broda} and {brode} are 'logically connected'.= For example, in {ti blanu je zdani} (CLL #12.12), {ti} fills the x1 place = of both {blanu} and {zdani}.=A0

According to CLL, {ti blanu je zdani} means the same as {ti blanu gi= 9;e zdani} (#12.4) and {ti blanu .ije ti zdani} (#12.5). In all three cases= , the thing referred to by {ti} both 'blanu's and 'zdani's.=

In the above sentences, some sumti places are not filled. The ellipsis = of sumti has no effect on the place structure; ellipsised sumti places are = understood as {zo'e}. For example, {mi tavla do zo'e zo'e} (CLL= #5.5) means the same thing as {mi tavla do} (CLL #5.8)

Likewise, {ti blanu .ije ti zdani} is to be understood as {ti blanu .ij= e ti zdani zo'e}. And {ti blanu gi'e zdani} is equivalent to {ti bl= anu gi'e zdani zo'e}.

So far, so good.

However, as fo= r tanru-internal logical connection, {ti blanu je zdani zo'e}, while sy= ntactically correct, is semantically problematic, since nobody knows what i= t means to {se blanu}: [1(2[zdani1 (home(s)) , blanu1 (blue thing(s)) :] ti= this here)2 [is, does] =AB3(4blanu being blue je and zdani being home(s))4= =BB3 (5[zdani2 (reside-r(s)) , blanu2 (blue??) :] zo'e unspecif it)5]1 = (Jbofi'e, for illustration).

So, is {ti blanu je zdani} (CLL #12.12) a meaningful sentence?

T= o take another example: {sutra je jipci}. Does this express that there is a= relation between an obvious x1, which is both quick and a chicken, and an = obvious x2, which is both an event quickly brought about by x1 and the chic= ken-breed of x1=97which does not make any sense? Does it mean anything?

I'm afraid that I have probably been using sentences like {sutra je= jipci} rather freely, and without bothering to think about any sumti but t= he x1.

So, what's the solution? (An ellipsised {vau}? If so, the= n I'll have at least one follow-up question.)

ki'e do mu'o mi'e .iesk.

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