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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 14:36:00 -0800 (PST)
From: iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Tanru-internal connectives, place structure, non-sense
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=20

Hm, I don't really {sutra je jipci je mencre} (but thanks for the=20
compliment!), and I'm still not sure what to make of this. But it seems to=
=20
me that {ti blanu je zdani} is *not* a good example sentence in the=20
reference grammar.


 (Since 'the x2 of a one-place brivla' is a separate issue, separately=20
discussed, that need not distract us here, I'll stick to the {sutra je=20
jipci} example.)


 la gejyspa ku cusku di'e

> "mi sutra je jipci" is a perfectly fine sentence to say


 I agree that 'I am fast, and a chicken' is what that sentence is probably=
=20
supposed to mean, and what will be understood by a co-operative listener.=
=20
But then, the speaker should have said {mi sutra gi'e jipci} or so. I don't=
=20
think {mi sutra je jipci} makes sense. If it did, that would mean that=20
places could be pragmatically cancelled out/filled with {zi'o} =85 or {no=
=20
da}, whatever. But I think a legitimate Lojbanic reaction (besides {ki'a})=
=20
to {mi sutra je jipci} would always be {sutra je jipci ma}=97the second=20
argument is still there and can always be made explicit. Otherwise, we'd=20
end up with place structure ambiguity in ellipsis sentences, wouldn't we?


 My tentative conclusion is that CLL #12.12 might better be listed as an=20
erratum. Opinions?

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<div dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm">Hm, I don't really {sutra je jipci je
mencre} (but thanks for the compliment!), and I'm still not sure what
to make of this. But it seems to me that {ti blanu je zdani} is *not*
a good example sentence in the reference grammar.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm">(Since 'the x2 of a one-place brivla'
is a separate issue, separately discussed, that need not distract us
here, I'll stick to the {sutra je jipci} example.)</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm">la gejyspa ku cusku di'e</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm">&gt; "mi sutra je jipci" is a
perfectly fine sentence to say</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm">I agree that 'I am fast, and a chicken'
is what that sentence is probably supposed to mean, and what will be
understood by a co-operative listener. But then, the speaker should
have said {mi sutra gi'e jipci} or so. I don't think {mi sutra je
jipci} makes sense. If it did, that would mean that places could be
pragmatically cancelled out/filled with {zi'o} =85 or {no da},
whatever. But I think a legitimate Lojbanic reaction (besides {ki'a})
to {mi sutra je jipci} would always be {sutra je jipci ma}=97the
second argument is still there and can always be made explicit.
Otherwise, we'd end up with place structure ambiguity in ellipsis
sentences, wouldn't we?</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm">My tentative conclusion is that CLL
#12.12 might better be listed as an erratum. Opinions?</p>
</div>

<p></p>

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