Received: from mail-qe0-f58.google.com ([209.85.128.58]:48295) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VlLCd-0005GK-Bg; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:35 -0800 Received: by mail-qe0-f58.google.com with SMTP id 1sf961593qec.23 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=dZeIltRR5jqJoIlvPrNJCpljW5sd+qw3hruEQAi7cNo=; b=KemKTJ0ec1vJgPWx1+TkrH6rLqsxwPGaoHWTwKGn43mAUd9cIB9gbHRKBxgzphpD67 UNZAboBA/NITp1iIE0q9Qu08UiJ43UGoA6sPBHoqAqpe7jxwkLFznws44jFTaKSkyB8A ikkr5Av0xT75Av4SsUKr1SiT5Bg/+RhCwYLBXIoBENnnFr+XkH5hln/mE9yg1wos6tei y5q/H3/xPJ3bKIVs3Fn2hFvQst1udDBneRQrhcpZOiS/8VxpJhZfm3cj39Bv1JWESiZ2 tBawK1otmMJUwXuQLpUt4WlanF2adhgCigCv+W45FVT8SZ7O42jvzCTVUEtPnodyzLPi cUlQ== X-Received: by 10.182.78.103 with SMTP id a7mr322336obx.4.1385482164871; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.229.104 with SMTP id sp8ls866455obc.33.gmail; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.246.225 with SMTP id xz1mr10928535obc.14.1385482163669; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qe0-x235.google.com (mail-qe0-x235.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c02::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gs8si476829qcb.0.2013.11.26.08.09.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c02::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c02::235; Received: by mail-qe0-x235.google.com with SMTP id nc12so4387499qeb.12 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.61.1 with SMTP id r1mr14770435qah.97.1385482163556; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.26.135 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:09:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2683712.Fo7hJaPmx4@caracal> References: <09cea7d8-a45e-41c8-b4af-2f162a85fa9f@googlegroups.com> <5e4f1987-25b8-4264-8746-f488020fbe53@googlegroups.com> <2683712.Fo7hJaPmx4@caracal> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:09:23 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: How to construct certain sentences From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c02::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3f4d433af0604ec16b491 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a11c3f4d433af0604ec16b491 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:02:18 qx4096@gmail.com wrote: > > I'm a little confused about {baziku ca le nitce}. I would have thought > that > > would be "a short time from now but during the night" rather than "a > little > > later in the night" because I thought that when {ba} has no sumti it is > > relative to the present. > > Would ".ibazibo ca le nicte" work? You can connect two sentences with > "ibabo", > meaning that the second one occurs after the first. > While ibazibo ca lo nicte is definitely correct and unambiguous, baziku ca le nicte isn't wrong. Since you are telling a continuous narrative in "story time", the listener will pretty much assume everything is relative to the events of the story (you could make this explicit with a sticky tense -ki construction at the beginning, if you wish), unless you specifically cancel out that assumption with a "nau". > > > The sentence with "someday" in it that I was trying to translate is > > "Annemarie thinks that maybe someday she will be able to give Elen back > her > > necklace," which I have translated as {la .anmyris. pensi lodu'u bazuku > > kakne lonu xruti lo cnebo jemna la .elen.}. I also wonder if {cnebo > jemna} > > is not a good translation for "necklace". > > I think you've found a word that's not easy to translate to Lojban. As to > "necklace", how about "nebjmeclupa"? > I'd go with "ca da" or "ca lo balvi" for "someday" For necklace I would and have used "nebja'i" > > > How do I say "in the context of ..." like "in the episode X, Y happened". > > I'm not sure. You may want "va'o" or "ca'o". > > Yes, va'o is appropriate here. > d stopped it to find out which browser window is > taking up too much memory. > > > How do I say that someone is named something? I tried {lo tolcitno je > makfa > > ninmu noi cmene la mydyr.gatyl.} but to specify that someone is named > > something, it seems like it would be necessary to say that they are named > > the word itself, not what the word refers to, so I tried using {zo} > instead > > of {la} but the parser didn't like that. > > Use "lu ... li'u". > The point here that may have escaped your notice, qx4096 (do you have a name, btw??), is that "mydyr.gatyl.", while a single name, is two words (hence the periods). Therefore "zo" won't work. You need a lu/li'u to quote more than one word. --gejyspa, slowly trying to catch up on email -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a11c3f4d433af0604ec16b491 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Pierre Abbat <= ;phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
On Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:02:18 qx4096@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm a little confused about {baziku ca le nitce}. I would have tho= ught that
> would be "a short time from now but during the night" rather= than "a little
> later in the night" because I thought that when {ba} has no sumti= it is
> relative to the present.

Would ".ibazibo ca le nicte" work? You can connect two sent= ences with "ibabo",
meaning that the second one occurs after the first.
=A0 While ibazibo ca lo nicte is definitely correct and unambi= guous, baziku ca le nicte isn't wrong. =A0 Since you are telling a cont= inuous narrative in "story time", the listener will pretty much a= ssume everything is relative to the events of the story (you could make thi= s explicit with a sticky tense -ki construction at the beginning, if you wi= sh), unless you specifically cancel out that assumption with a "nau&qu= ot;.
=A0

> The sentence with "someday" in it that I was trying to trans= late is
> "Annemarie thinks that maybe someday she will be able to give Ele= n back her
> necklace," which I have translated as {la .anmyris. pensi lodu= 9;u bazuku
> kakne lonu xruti lo cnebo jemna la .elen.}. I also wonder if {cnebo je= mna}
> is not a good translation for "necklace".

I think you've found a word that's not easy to translate to L= ojban. As to
"necklace", how about "nebjmeclupa"?

=A0 I'd go with "ca da" or "ca lo balv= i" for "someday"
=A0 For necklace I would and have= used "nebja'i"



> How do I say "in the context of ..." like "in the episo= de X, Y happened".

I'm not sure. You may want "va'o" or "ca'o= ".


=A0 =A0Yes, va= 'o is appropriate here.
=A0
d stopped it to find = out which browser window is
taking up too much memory.

> How do I say that someone is named something? I tried {lo tolcitno je = makfa
> ninmu noi cmene la mydyr.gatyl.} but to specify that someone is named<= br> > something, it seems like it would be necessary to say that they are na= med
> the word itself, not what the word refers to, so I tried using {zo} in= stead
> of {la} but the parser didn't like that.

Use "lu ... li'u".

= =A0 The point here that may have escaped =A0your notice, qx4096 (do you hav= e a name, btw??), is that "mydyr.gatyl.", while a single name, is two words (hen= ce the periods). =A0Therefore "zo" won't work. =A0You need a = lu/li'u to quote more than one word.

=A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa, slowly trying to catch up on email

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--001a11c3f4d433af0604ec16b491--