Received: from mail-pa0-f56.google.com ([209.85.220.56]:38264) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XRiJA-0000K9-8c for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:41 -0700 Received: by mail-pa0-f56.google.com with SMTP id fa1sf905473pad.11 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=BQCYE3xSrKnqLm1efdAXv3VtUurALzTWPOgAiaFVcAw=; b=RAWmn7Arh5QRtznOalOEg3hDqEkddZIyimgkn3CHfSo8OgC7ziBhtodmAOEvjUBDgq bqSBxF8nvgV5WSMJrFeWaN2I8Lc3s/w8VUpOYF4DUI9gMBzcLJ2YyLUysoGVSmQ/EuPD eoabx/P5uMPZn6dRi8v7HuL+E76jTpgHrIxOt7CYf8nzXCsJNTVx4GcmaSoKI0UOW7pP IojTCrvhXIbijkjlE6FoaPLWY9lMNC+JWq3ka9QEpVrEVo20aSDRwBGGDq6Z1/L+wLBb WNKxXZV5sN3ys5uAIKT4xlMCB3Ce4Q6P9pzqW5aJAmpQMGBuNvwqg8xTSABULxDQvxhw GA7g== X-Received: by 10.50.30.38 with SMTP id p6mr484616igh.8.1410357093845; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.164.169 with SMTP id yr9ls3230040igb.11.canary; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.49.33 with SMTP id r1mr670493ign.3.1410357092555; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x236.google.com (mail-qc0-x236.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c01::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ld1si1295692qcb.3.2014.09.10.06.51.32 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c01::236; Received: by mail-qc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id x13so6141394qcv.13 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.11.212 with SMTP id u20mr51337209qau.82.1410357092431; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.50.167 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2845747.BXNi2yFm3g@caracal> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:51:32 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ma xe fanva zoigy.Dial 911.gy. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01537550803d770502b659f6 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --089e01537550803d770502b659f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > jorne > ??? > 2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : > >> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >>> The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, >>> opening a >>> cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a >>> cupboard >>> is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talking about what >>> you do >>> to the cupboard. Any suggestions? >>> >> >> I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any >> language which uses a word that means something other than "open"? Can you >> express the concept you're talking about in any language that you know, in >> a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples you gave? >> >> Going way off the deep end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box is >> basically transforming a hollow, convex cube into a concave... >> hexahedron?... for the purposes of gaining access to what was the interior, >> but that seems to me just a very esoteric and wordy way to convey the exact >> same thing "opening a box". >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e01537550803d770502b659f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On W= ed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com> wrote:
jorne

???
=A0
2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.c= om>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezit= opo.org> wrote:
The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, opening a=
cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a cupboar= d
is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talk= ing about what you do
to the cupboard. Any suggestions?
=A0
I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any la= nguage which uses a word that means something other than "open"? = Can you express the concept you're talking about in any language that y= ou know, in a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples= you gave?

Going way off the deep e= nd, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box is basically transforming a ho= llow, convex cube into a concave... hexahedron?... for the purposes of gain= ing access to what was the interior, but that seems to me just a very esote= ric and wordy way to convey the exact same thing "opening a box".=
<= font color=3D"#888888">

--
mu'o mi= 9;e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk.= mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D = )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--089e01537550803d770502b659f6--