Received: from mail-pa0-f59.google.com ([209.85.220.59]:48715) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XRjgp-0001Tg-Az for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:20:16 -0700 Received: by mail-pa0-f59.google.com with SMTP id kq14sf557879pab.4 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:20:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=XhMDcKz+KacuO0A4ojbyJhnJ8TyrL0C6L3cokBm7wZY=; b=e7fb/5r9V62aoyK8wwGOOvrRGPp5t0qDKJ6DIHgC2uIoc6q770ruNGspozizshARw1 So1iNX75nL0556nF9iv8ANUyGDYlh1bPMWuhWLt3LY25001iGs0hz5i8ZFfpqABbEP0H uw0tGO6cefw00zU7+J3hximhJxJLdIbDnKjnB0wgKzSO5R0g4ZlBujJdaE3K8pj6Jufr dhl97P7fO+D2MrnIVddoz8hCuL8fWDgYjGMg+6S2bA5XUoqwqr0d1PdlFzlINVR1t7g2 lAA0jzyegRei//V2gYqN8sWzY/OBLSNLUfDwAVeicYkKncCsxR4SoQD6tGcret0O1nkd 05bw== X-Received: by 10.50.79.201 with SMTP id l9mr19803igx.5.1410362403863; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:20:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.17.71 with SMTP id m7ls3333809igd.5.gmail; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:20:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.177.108 with SMTP id cp12mr21636785pac.14.1410362400006; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x233.google.com (mail-qg0-x233.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ld1si1360594qcb.3.2014.09.10.08.19.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233; Received: by mail-qg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id e89so5489747qgf.24 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:19:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.37.9 with SMTP id q9mr58995397qgq.40.1410362399114; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.50.167 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:19:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2845747.BXNi2yFm3g@caracal> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:19:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ma xe fanva zoigy.Dial 911.gy. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1358acddd610502b79575 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c1358acddd610502b79575 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What do you think ri refers to in my statement? Because the intended referent was {la'edi'u}. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > .ienai > > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> zo ra enai zo ri >> >> 2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >> >>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> ko jorne la'e li 911 >>>> >>> >>> .i na nelci lonu do pilno zo jorne la'edi'u .iku'i radji'i.ei lodu'u ri >>> mapti >>> >>> >>>> i zo aktygau cu su'oroi mapti >>>> >>>> 2014-09-10 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> jorne >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> 2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, >>>>>>>> opening a >>>>>>>> cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a >>>>>>>> cupboard >>>>>>>> is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talking about >>>>>>>> what you do >>>>>>>> to the cupboard. Any suggestions? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any >>>>>>> language which uses a word that means something other than "open"? Can you >>>>>>> express the concept you're talking about in any language that you know, in >>>>>>> a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples you gave? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Going way off the deep end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box >>>>>>> is basically transforming a hollow, convex cube into a concave... >>>>>>> hexahedron?... for the purposes of gaining access to what was the interior, >>>>>>> but that seems to me just a very esoteric and wordy way to convey the exact >>>>>>> same thing "opening a box". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c1358acddd610502b79575 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What do you think ri refers to = in my statement? Because the intended referent was {la'edi'u}.
<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jon= es <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
.ienai


On Wed, Sep= 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
zo= ra enai zo ri

2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones &l= t;eyeonus@gmail.com<= /a>>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at= 7:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
ko jorne la= 9;e li 911

.i na nelci lonu do= pilno zo jorne la'edi'u .iku'i radji'i.ei lodu'u ri ma= pti
=A0
i zo aktygau cu su'oroi mapti

2014-09-10 = 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
jorne

???
=A0<= /div>
2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jone= s <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@b= ezitopo.org> wrote:
The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, opening a=
cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a cupboar= d
is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talk= ing about what you do
to the cupboard. Any suggestions?
=A0
I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any la= nguage which uses a word that means something other than "open"? = Can you express the concept you're talking about in any language that y= ou know, in a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples= you gave?

Going way off the deep e= nd, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box is basically transforming a ho= llow, convex cube into a concave... hexahedron?... for the purposes of gain= ing access to what was the interior, but that seems to me just a very esote= ric and wordy way to convey the exact same thing "opening a box".=
<= font color=3D"#888888">

--
mu'o mi= 9;e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk.= mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D = )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--001a11c1358acddd610502b79575--