Received: from mail-lb0-f187.google.com ([209.85.217.187]:35799) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XUbZS-0002zU-QO for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:27 -0700 Received: by mail-lb0-f187.google.com with SMTP id z12sf82032lbi.4 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=OLgNXIcOeJ4KVcnT5sSHEalSAZbX+rLLWWWNt8zY04I=; b=BeQ7rGm1Bm+fpYbf60L31lyOgsgBQ3suKIu38+3H+xx1HoOObE9I2BtbiQsZbuG75d 1qPixbZPWNbBYm9f/W9j/i92Vw9tzlL3M+MRcIK2mjnwcMX8+GBvqjbKPwgS+wUL0QFn jD7JJCDrBk8u9DxoLHtrneB5ODfSw5gpGCdVFwuU9lsgKwKbu1dKopC2YE5jOSdlcr0F rWpNgCmqtkzTTpFEK9MPPHhZL5p5Fr5QBlQM+VNSomgiwkYk3uhDSLqZHKhpHm2TBOZa b1+Ux20rZ7eKIIjNX8BiwWEKe1csh2oUSVkmo7fX5D+Q6MJdvL9j7Fh943XRke0GNeVy WanA== X-Received: by 10.180.98.41 with SMTP id ef9mr222892wib.8.1411046179355; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.82.200 with SMTP id k8ls325815wiy.46.gmail; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.81.226 with SMTP id d2mr8871955wiy.5.1411046177335; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22a.google.com (mail-lb0-x22a.google.com [2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b6si817032lbd.1.2014.09.18.06.16.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a; Received: by mail-lb0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id c11so1115692lbj.1 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.3.35 with SMTP id 3mr4860806laz.5.1411046177066; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.25.229 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:16:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:16:16 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] how to use {fancu}? From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0141a01025528c050356ca40 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --089e0141a01025528c050356ca40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 2:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > 2014-09-17 19:23 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> >> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> E.g "f(x) =3D (x + 1) (x =E2=88=92 1)" where x>1 >>> >>> Your example would be: "fy pe xy du li vei xy su'i pa ve'o pi'i vei xy >>> vu'u pa ve'o" >>> >> > Don't you think {pe} is extremely hackish here? > No, I think it's correct, "the f associated with x is equal to x plus one times x minus one". , which doesn't use "fancu", but you could also say fy fancu xy noi mrena'u >> gi'e zmadu li pa" >> > And this doesn't use the formula. > You can combine both: fy pe xy zi'e no'u li vei xy su'i pa ve'o pi'i vei xy vu'u pa ve'o cu fancu xy noi mrena'u gi'e zmadu li pa > Still I think "f(x) is the name for "(x+1)(x-1)"" is a useful predicate. > f(x) is not the name for "(x+1)(x-1)", it's the other way around. "f(x)", or "(x+1)(x-1)", are two different names, or descriptions, of the same function: f(x), or (x+1)(x-1). The description "(x+1)(x-1)" is just more descriptive because it uses more conventional symbols, whereas the description "f(x)" uses a nonce symbol. The advantage of "f(x)" is that it's shorter, so if we are going to be using the function conventionally described as "(x+1)(x-1)" a lot, it may be useful to assign it a shorter name, such as "f(x)". It's like "ko'a" and "lo nanmu poi bevri lo pipno", one is more descriptive and the other is shorter, but they can both be used to refer to the same thing(s). mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e0141a01025528c050356ca40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 2:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name= @gmail.com> wrote:

2014-= 09-17 19:23 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>= :
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:35 AM, Gle= ki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=

E.g "= f(x) =3D (x=E2=80=89+=E2=80=891)=E2=80=89(x=E2=80=89=E2=88=92=E2=80=891)&qu= ot; where x>1

Your example would be: "fy p= e xy du li vei xy su'i pa ve'o pi'i vei xy vu'u pa ve'o= "

Don't you think {pe} is extremely hackish= here?

No, I think = it's correct, "the f associated with x is equal to x plus one time= s x minus one".=C2=A0

, which doesn't use "fancu", but you co= uld also say fy fancu xy noi mrena'u gi'e zmadu li pa"
And this doesn't use the formu= la.

You can combine= both:=C2=A0

=C2=A0 fy pe xy zi'e no'u li = vei xy su'i pa ve'o pi'i vei xy vu'u pa ve'o cu fancu x= y noi mrena'u gi'e zmadu li pa
=C2=A0
<= div>Still I think "f(x) is the name for "(x+1)(x-1)"" i= s a useful predicate.

f(x) is not the name for "(x+1)(x-1)", it's the other way = around.

"f(x)", or "(x+1)(x-1)"= ;, are two different names, or descriptions, of the same function: f(x), or= (x+1)(x-1).=C2=A0

The description "(x+1)(x-1= )" is just more descriptive because it uses more conventional symbols,= whereas the description "f(x)" uses a nonce symbol. The advantag= e of "f(x)" is that it's shorter, so if we are going to be us= ing the function conventionally described as "(x+1)(x-1)" a lot, = it may be useful to assign it a shorter name, such as "f(x)". It&= #39;s like "ko'a" and "lo nanmu poi bevri lo pipno"= , one is more descriptive and the other is shorter, but they can both be us= ed to refer to the same thing(s).

mu'o mi'= e xorxes

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