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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:01:36 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] precise tenru
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On 26 September 2014 09:15, TR NS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, September 26, 2014 6:57:41 AM UTC-4, tsani wrote:
>>
>> That's the beauty of it. You could mean almost anything with it, and due
>> to that you mean next to nothing. Context is paramount in interpreting
>> these kinds of tanru. Naturally, the more selbri you expect the listener to
>> infer, the less likely it is that what you mean to say and what the
>> listener interprets will be alike. This is one of those very vague features
>> of Lojban, like {zo'e} or {co'e}, and I hardly see people pointing out that
>> they're impossible to use conversationally. Theoretically, you could mean
>> anything, but in practice, you don't.
>>
>>
>
> I'm not sure I think it beautiful. It means it's just a matter of
> convention, and not in any way logical. Someone could coin a phrase "melbi
> bebna" and an outsider might think it meant rather literally "a beautiful
> fool" (using the simplest x1=y1 rule), but by the convention it actually
> means "ugly" --the person is a fool b/c they just think they look beautiful.
>
> Ultimately tanru would become a proverbial garden of idiom.
>
> Tanru are simple, and less verbose constructs are typically less precise.
Tanru are designed to be inexact in their meaning, and are designed to be
highly dependent on context. If you don't like that, then don't use tanru;
if you want to be precise, there're a multitude of alternatives.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2=
6 September 2014 09:15, TR NS <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:trans=
fire@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">transfire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"">On Fri=
day, September 26, 2014 6:57:41 AM UTC-4, tsani wrote:<blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Th=
at&#39;s the beauty of it. You could mean almost anything with it, and due =
to that you mean next to nothing. Context is paramount in interpreting thes=
e kinds of tanru. Naturally, the more selbri you expect the listener to inf=
er, the less likely it is that what you mean to say and what the listener i=
nterprets will be alike. This is one of those very vague features of Lojban=
, like {zo&#39;e} or {co&#39;e}, and I hardly see people pointing out that =
they&#39;re impossible to use conversationally. Theoretically, you could me=
an anything, but in practice, you don&#39;t.</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I&#39;m not sure I think =
it beautiful. It means it&#39;s just a matter of convention, and not in any=
 way logical. Someone could coin a phrase &quot;melbi bebna&quot; and an ou=
tsider might think it meant rather literally &quot;a beautiful fool&quot; (=
using the simplest x1=3Dy1 rule), but by the convention it actually means &=
quot;ugly&quot; --the person is a fool b/c they just think they look beauti=
ful.</div><div><br></div><div>Ultimately tanru would become a proverbial ga=
rden of idiom.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div>Tanru are simple=
, and less verbose constructs are typically less precise. Tanru are designe=
d to be inexact in their meaning, and are designed to be highly dependent o=
n context. If you don&#39;t like that, then don&#39;t use tanru; if you wan=
t to be precise, there&#39;re a multitude of alternatives.</div><div><br></=
div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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