Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 14:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Erik Natanael Gustafsson <eriknatanaelgustafsson@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Some questions after reading la .teris.
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Yes, I see now that krici is defined as "x1 believes [regardless of 
evidence/proof].....". However, in English you can believe something even 
if you don't disregard evidence (which I feel the definition for krici 
suggests), for example if you don't have enough evidence to be completely 
sure about what is correct, but you can make an educated guess.
Example: "I believe the hammer is on the upper shelf."
You wouldn't say "I am of the opinion that the hammer is on the upper 
shelf." and I can't quite put into words why. It's just not something that 
you have an opinion about. For me, it feels the same way to say that "she 
was of the opinion that he was just pretending.".

Again, this might come from the very clear distinction between "tycka" 
(having an opinion) and "tro" (believing) in Swedish (my native language), 
where some things clearly are opinions and some are beliefs (for lack of a 
better word). I actually think that sruma and krica are quite close in 
meaning, regarding what goes on in the mind, and only different maybe in 
application on different kinds of thought. I would prefer sruma in this 
case.

I have to disagree with the definition of opinion as justified belief. I 
know you wrote "roughly", but I see opinion as something fundamentally 
different from a belief. It feels like a completely different mindset. I 
think I would say that you can only have an opinion about something which 
isn't either true or false, something where preference is applicable. And 
it doesn't have to be justified at all, it can just be a hunch, a feeling, 
as well as well thought 
arguments. Please let me know if this is not how an opinion is defined in 
English!

Maybe this is a little bit OT, but I find the subject very interesting!

Cheers!

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, I see now that krici is defined as "x1 believes [rega=
rdless of evidence/proof].....". However, in English you can believe someth=
ing even if you don't disregard evidence (which I feel the definition for k=
rici suggests), for example if you don't have enough evidence to be complet=
ely sure about what is correct, but you can make an educated guess.<br><div=
>Example: "I believe the hammer is on the upper shelf."<br>You wouldn't say=
 "I am of the opinion that the hammer is on the upper shelf." and I can't q=
uite put into words why. It's just not something that you have an opinion a=
bout. For me, it feels the same way to say that "she was of the opinion tha=
t he was just pretending.".<br><br>Again, this might come from the very cle=
ar distinction between "tycka" (having an opinion) and "tro" (believing) in=
 Swedish (my native language), where some things clearly are opinions and s=
ome are beliefs (for lack of a better word). I actually think that sruma an=
d krica are quite close in meaning, regarding what goes on in the mind, and=
 only different maybe in application on different kinds of thought. I would=
 prefer sruma in this case.<br><br>I have to disagree with the definition o=
f opinion as justified belief. I know you wrote "roughly", but I see opinio=
n as something fundamentally different from a belief. It feels like a compl=
etely different mindset. I think I would say that you can only have an opin=
ion about something which isn't either true or false, something where prefe=
rence is applicable. And it doesn't have to be justified at all, it can jus=
t be a hunch, a feeling, as well as well thought <br>arguments. Please let =
me know if this is not how an opinion is defined in English!<br><br>Maybe t=
his is a little bit OT, but I find the subject very interesting!<br><br>Che=
ers!<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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