Received: from mail-ig0-f192.google.com ([209.85.213.192]:33533) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7efl-0000k6-9b for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:00:46 -0700 Received: by igdh15 with SMTP id h15sf10138007igd.0 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:00:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=dju+rW5f157ucH5+v5AEGmE0fYZrdDHH5MXOyCjHuMo=; b=U54iqukhaTL0H6zKuSE0DTfJizO15xB2H36iZaOaVvima/blo2LgbYTACX2MSBbH0i mi1tCkT8PoKFGhoD/0iHLKdSymVdbEyoMK9rTPq71zTeqEfhw/FVovyPxH+4j+fO+mZJ hQwLy6Kos/G8Jh6gK1t3L9KJG/nY2LReSeLsJt4S4ql9SI4rUBGa1vdReOXveuJqnRVZ xu9OzMfaLL3NkJc2GU+YQCZAf1dG/eSyB0fAZPTLv9GeA66nAqwW/JPLRY35HDsescGi yr0Lw1ndxrUGppwvkTAIE9u8n9hDZChDVStA/Qg67yQijpSgcSdrsKlV1me2e4ws8zxy fk0Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=dju+rW5f157ucH5+v5AEGmE0fYZrdDHH5MXOyCjHuMo=; b=k1n6AzYuoS+Md9Wv1rFVmZjxgdWFjbiiElJdzn0gt9OaepQx1gvJAct4gjKWAP4KVf EWxozckE2JJTvr16V7fnnBwSzpR+4RqdpoFJQelWkt3cWrDYAoSkisnQf2uyUh2x13Pg lZitbYw/Xu6200cpdhYh2svoLSs0P5Sg3pxECdl99L7aemXXRdslrRZ2s0pS+URN1rki 7BoQexNNouNnZaGvLazHxCMHDiTF1D2/akJTpGHLdylB1QFMwVr6ILyc3+D9qWODu3nK wmJnuOe1l5DdY4Ghss8aJg3A0r/KbukCfKnvD3FUErVT0KkHHc765I9VjnsbcqvTMmMv eQsg== X-Received: by 10.140.85.11 with SMTP id m11mr575277qgd.29.1435129231405; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:00:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.109.71 with SMTP id k65ls637990qgf.48.gmail; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:00:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.39.165 with SMTP id v34mr573609qgv.25.1435129230640; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:00:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Erik Natanael Gustafsson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <8339cd6c-3223-419e-8e22-ecb0b773c1c7@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <9a559350-5536-4ea8-8708-73a06e5c8531@googlegroups.com> <9a42afbb-df26-455f-b62c-d89181cad0be@googlegroups.com> <28474f71-596c-4000-8f63-cb431fa47d5b@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Some questions after reading la .teris. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_42_999794480.1435129229623" X-Original-Sender: eriknatanaelgustafsson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_bar: --- ------=_Part_42_999794480.1435129229623 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_43_1633771232.1435129229624" ------=_Part_43_1633771232.1435129229624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 12:57:35 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Erik Natanael Gustafsson < > eriknatanae...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 12:08:56 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote: > > > >> I think that's mostly a matter of register. "I am of the opinion that >>> ..." is way too formal for something like that. In English you might >>> express an opinion by saying "I think that ...". >>> >> Yes it's too formal, but I wanted to clearly distinguish the different >> senses of "to think". "To think" has so many different meanings that it >> feels almost meaningless when used in a definition. >> > > But "think that ...", i.e. when the object is a proposition, is pretty > much always "jinvi". Other "think"s are usually "pensi". > But couldn't "think that" just as well be sruma, krici or even smadi depending on context? > > > >> I guess the question is, how would I in Lojban distinguish between an >> opinion that is a belief concerning something which is true or false and an >> opinion that is a subjective view/taste? >> > > "jinvi" for the first one. For the second, I would need an example, but I > suppose you are thinking of "by standard" places, as in "ta melbi mi", > "that's beautiful to me"? > I'm sorry, I'm still having trouble seeing "opinion" used for objective contexts, but I'm trying to understand. I'll try to come up with clear examples of what I mean: Objective/true-false unsure statement: "I think Stockholm is a city, but I'm not sure." (where think can be replaced by believe) Subjective statement: "I think Stockholm is a dreadful city." I would use krici or similar for the first and jinvi for the second. Or is there another way to state facts with uncertainty that is appropriate for the first example? di'ai co'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. 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On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 12:57:35 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote:


On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Erik Natanael Gusta= fsson <eriknatanae...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 12:08:56 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote:
 
I think that's mostly a matter of re= gister. "I am of the opinion that ..." is way too formal for something like= that. In English you might express an opinion by saying "I think that ..."= .
Yes it's too formal, but = I wanted to clearly distinguish the different senses of "to think". "To thi= nk" has so many different meanings that it feels almost meaningless when us= ed in a definition.

But "think th= at ...", i.e. when the object is a proposition, is pretty much always "jinv= i".  Other "think"s are usually "pensi".
But couldn't "think that" just as well be sruma, krici or even = smadi depending on context?

 
I guess the questi= on is, how would I in Lojban distinguish between an opinion that is a belie= f concerning something which is true or false and an opinion that is a subj= ective view/taste? 

"jinvi" for = the first one. For the second, I would need an example, but I suppose you a= re thinking of "by standard" places, as in "ta melbi mi", "that's beautiful= to me"?
I'm sorry, I'm still havi= ng trouble seeing "opinion" used for objective contexts, but I'm trying to = understand. I'll try to come up with clear examples of what I mean:
Obje= ctive/true-false unsure statement: "I think Stockholm is a city, but I'm no= t sure." (where think can be replaced by believe)
Subjective statement: = "I think Stockholm is a dreadful city."
I would use krici or similar for= the first and jinvi for the second. Or is there another way to state facts= with uncertainty that is appropriate for the first example?

di'ai c= o'o

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