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[2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id eo3si1076820wib.0.2015.07.02.23.04.48 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Jul 2015 23:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::235; Received: by mail-wi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id dq8so90928700wib.1 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 23:04:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.109.229 with SMTP id hv5mr23740896wjb.119.1435903488621; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 23:04:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.221.167 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jul 2015 23:04:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 09:04:09 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] jbovlaste definitions To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b60441a5f00ea0519f2556d X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7b60441a5f00ea0519f2556d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2015-07-03 5:44 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence < timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>: > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com < > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2015 11:29 PM > > 2015-07-02 15:19 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence < > timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>: > >> coi ro do >> > >> Is this valid: "coi .i do sanji mo"? >> > >> I was looking up words on http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ and there >> was no definition for "and" in English. >> > > Is it a question about jbovlaste, i.e. that it is confusing in not > providing lojban translations of english words? > > > Yes. > > or you jsut want to know how to say "and" in Lojban? > > > Yes also. > At the moment, I am trying to translate "Jack and the Beanstalk" (just > that sentence, not the whole story) and I currently have "la djak. (ce?) = lo > se dembi stani". I'm still not quite sure which "and" to use. > I'm not sure either since i dont know the context. Likewise, one cannot translate "left" into Lojban because it has at least two meanings ("turn to the left" and "no sugar left"). But I suppose {la djak ce lo se dembi stani} is fine (Jack together with the Beanstalk). > The first question is a well known limitation of jbovlaste in being > mostly a Lojban to "another language" dictionary interface. > > > Its main page does say "English or lojban words: [Search]" so it does > seem to be an English to Lojban dictionary. If it's not intended to be, > it'd be good if it said so and included a link to one. > jbovlaste is a Lojban to English (or to other languages) interface. It has certain limitations since e.g. some English words can be translated as a group of Lojban words which jbovlaste currently is unable of. > I'm solving this issue by providing an English to Lojban dictionary= : > http://mw.lojban.org/papri/L17-04 > > > As for "and" most often words for it are {ce} and {e}. > > mi ce do casnu lo mlatu =3D I and you discuss cats (i.e. we discuss > it with each other) > > mi e do casnu lo mlatu =3D I and you discuss cats. I other words, = I > discuss cats, and you discuss cats. Maybe, separately, i.e. with differen= t > people. > > In some dialects instead of {ce} you may use {jo'u}, instead of {e} > you may use {je}. > > =E2=80=8BHaving nonstandard dialects (if the dialect is changing the > language rather than extending it) seems to thwart the unambiguity of the > language. How would I know which dialect is being used? > There is no ambiguity arising. CLL recommends {joi }, many people use {jo'u}, {ce} is also fine. The meaning is preserved. But using {e} or {je} in that place has the second meaning. I want to learn "standard" Lojban. > > > As for the most standard dialect of Lojban the CLL, chapter 14 > logical connectives are explained in full. > > > "If Wishes Were Horses"? I can't really follow that chapter very easily.= Is > there another summary that has all the "normal" uses? > Do you still have any questions on these connectives related to what you want to translate? > > >> I also got the following: >> > >> No definitions found for "thing" >> > because it has many meanings in English. {lo dacti} is "thing", an > object. > > > I expected to find many entries rather than no entries, just as with > "and". > For example, "medium" currently has many entries saying "in the sense > of..." (although I think that is missing "in the sense of 'average'" for > English). > It's a good point. > > No definitions found for "something" >> > > again {lo dacti}, or {da} or {zo'e} > > > No definitions found for "fun" >> > No definitions found for "solve" >> > No definitions found for "fix" >> > No definitions found for "hum" >> > No definitions found for "biped" >> > No definitions found for "fungi" >> > No definitions found for "fungus" >> > No definitions found for "mycelium" >> > >> I was wondering if anyone could fill these in for me. >> > > well, okay. i will add them to my todo list. > > > Thank you :) > > > >> >> Recently, jbovlaste has had a lot of connection problems when I >> try to connect (the lojban.org site itself, too). Currently I cannot >> connect to either. Is there a local app version of jbovlaste? >> > > > http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mediawiki-1.19.2/extensions/ilmentufa/i/en= /index.html#sisku/coi > > > > >> Thanks :) >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b60441a5f00ea0519f2556d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-07-03 5:44 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence <timothy.= lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>:



Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 11:29 PM
=C2=A0
2015-07-02 15:19 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>:
coi ro do

Is this valid: "coi .i do sanji mo"?

I was looking up words on http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ and there was no definition for "and&= quot; in English.

Is it a question about jbovlaste, i.e. that it is confusing in not pro= viding lojban translations of english words?


Yes.

or you jsut want to know how to say "and" in Lojban?

Yes also.
At the moment,=C2=A0I am trying to translate "Jack and the Beanst= alk" (just that=C2=A0sentence, not the whole story)=C2=A0and I current= ly have "la djak. (ce?) lo se dembi stani". I'm still not qui= te sure which "and"=C2=A0to use.
I'm not sure either since i dont k= now the context. Likewise, one cannot translate "left" into Lojba= n because it has at least two meanings ("turn to the left" and &q= uot;no sugar left").
But I suppose {la djak ce lo se dembi s= tani} is fine (Jack together with the Beanstalk).


The first question is a well known limitation of jbovlaste in being mo= stly a Lojban to "another language" dictionary interface.

Its main=C2=A0page does say "English or lojban words: [Search]&qu= ot; so it does seem to be an English to Lojban dictionary. If it's not = intended to be, it'd be good if it said so and included=C2=A0a link=C2= =A0to one.
=

jbovlaste is a Lojban to English (or to other languages= ) interface.
It has certain =C2=A0limitations since e.g. some Eng= lish words can be translated as a group of Lojban words which jbovlaste cur= rently is unable of.


I'm solving this issue by providing an English to Lojban dictionar= y:

As for "and" most often words for it are {ce} and {e}.

mi ce do casnu lo mlatu =3D I and you discuss cats (i.e. we discuss it= with each other)

mi e do casnu lo mlatu =3D I and you discuss cats. I =C2=A0other words= , I discuss cats, and you discuss cats. Maybe, separately, i.e. with differ= ent people.

In some dialects instead of {ce} you may use {jo'u}, instead of {e= } you may use {je}.

=E2=80=8BHaving nonstandard dialects = (if the dialect is changing the language=C2=A0rather than extending it)=C2= =A0seems to thwart the unambiguity=C2=A0of the language. How would I= know which dialect is being used?

=
There is no ambiguity arising. CLL recommends {joi}, many people use {jo'u}, {ce} i= s also fine. The meaning is preserved.
But using {e} or {je} in t= hat place has the second meaning.


I want to learn "standard"= ; Lojban.

As for the most standard dialect of Lojban the CLL, chapter 14=C2=A0logical connectives are explained in full.

"If Wishes Were Horses"? I can't really=C2=A0follow that chapter very easily.=C2= =A0Is there another summary that has all the "normal" uses= ?

=
Do you still have any questions on these connectives related to = what you want to translate?
=C2=A0


I also got the following:

No definitions found for "thing"
because it has many meanings in English. {lo dacti} is "thing&quo= t;, an object.=C2=A0

I expected=C2=A0to find many entries rather than=C2=A0no entries, just= as with "and".
For example, "medium" currently=C2=A0has many entries saying= "in the sense of..." (although I think that=C2=A0is missing &quo= t;in the sense of 'average'" for English).

It's a= good point.
=C2=A0

No definitions found for "something"

again {lo dacti}, or {da} or {zo'e}

No definitions found for "fun"
No definitions found for "solve"
No definitions found for "fix"
No definitions found for "hum"
No definitions found for "biped"
No definitions found for "fungi"
No definitions found for "fungus"
No definitions found for "mycelium"

I was wondering if anyone could fill these in for me.

well, okay. i will add them to my todo list.

Thank you :)
=C2=A0

Recently, jbovlaste has had a lot of connection problems when I try to conn= ect (the lojban.org site itself,= too). Currently I cannot connect to either. Is there a local app version o= f jbovlaste?

=C2=A0

Thanks :)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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