Received: from mail-qk0-f185.google.com ([209.85.220.185]:33966) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZFS82-0000j0-5n for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:14:09 -0700 Received: by qkdu126 with SMTP id u126sf19491384qkd.1 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:13:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x_cmae_category:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=BE9XpF1yFRmPmBJfndwO1M/YEjLyUp/srb7wWYL6mOM=; b=kkFFjFXmZgNnsXdHih70QM+CA3yW3Dho62oc6chTBpqyzhV/6+Ci7Y+8l8Jqxa6w3w +z5e0n9kbIOfPEPhyfAHO5Xx1T6+1vCr1Hv/J2mkdwbRxdPOQyR2fCfqGjqXHwep45UU NyeUiNicLvL+9kaHAvzmPZW8fDnmKkyOrxV+twwN+vTI4e1Ot+Hb5q4C91r+JVqJtx94 KtBQgkmblBQmfVu3TrmVZ3zYWbkF2IfG7BJIrEqL0+kjOve48uMXS3H28Kmmz26PZJd5 ZveBucw9boY8cMaW3vj8GXgK0iyo5HPt8iJLpctHA9tjN+yeRStrd2QxZeCNZgRkCT4H snag== X-Received: by 10.182.138.9 with SMTP id qm9mr83423obb.34.1436987636036; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:13:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.205.170 with SMTP id lh10ls406459obc.60.gmail; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:13:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.230.3 with SMTP id su3mr6717710obc.6.1436987634858; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.hughes.net (smtp.hughes.net. [69.168.97.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b7si500591igv.3.2015.07.15.12.13.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) client-ip=69.168.97.48; X-Authed-Username: cGhtYUBodWdoZXMubmV0 X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=L+4kHYj8 c=1 sm=0 tr=0 a=8WxDmEN+yG9ijBF2nxzWZQ==:117 a=8WxDmEN+yG9ijBF2nxzWZQ==:17 a=K-v-2zaBAAAA:8 a=JNFw9bs7AAAA:8 a=ANSa77Uay4QA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zOBTXjUuO1YA:10 a=HTa6H9h4j3IcUW47Ix0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Received-SPF: neutral (smtp01.hughes.cmh.synacor.com: 45.37.90.97 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bezitopo.org) Received: from [45.37.90.97] ([45.37.90.97:48172] helo=bezitopo.org) by smtp.hughes.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.49 r(42060/42061)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-SHA) id F8/81-26404-2F0B6A55; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 15:13:54 -0400 Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bezitopo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B267A66B5 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 15:13:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say to make sth better? Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 15:13:29 -0400 Message-ID: <2341070.Srp6tUo51V@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-53-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Original-Sender: phma@bezitopo.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) smtp.mail=phma@bezitopo.org Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:58:38 Ian Johnson wrote: > The main causation words are {rinka},{mukti},{krinu}, and {nibli}. In your > example you would want {mukti}: > > A: .i ma mukti lo nu do co'e > B: .i tu'a do > > All four of these have short tags: {ri'a},{mu'i},{ki'u}, and {ni'i}. So you > can shorten the above to: > > A: .i mu'i ma do co'e > B: .i tu'a do > > with no loss. "tu'a do" is more general than "for you"; it could be anything you did or some property of you. "For" in this context is "seva'u", but "seva'u ma" wouldn't be translated "why". ("tu'a" is not a preposition; it's a sumti qualifier.) Pierre -- gau do li'i co'e kei do -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.