Received: from mail-pd0-f190.google.com ([209.85.192.190]:33422) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdhDP-0007VH-Mf for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:11:57 -0700 Received: by pdbou10 with SMTP id ou10sf14729734pdb.0 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:11:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=7zd3SnkYtGyDK16IK9Adhg/h/v0h/TmY+joXN9fdOp8=; b=grR2p7aPd0OhGDxq8y4x4jF7M2+4dI49k4Nl8Gi7VE/nPlW5bEtqHLoqE7Me8xHm+I XUzRi1WmJ1LrKvAFhHcbvylETLRei5ERXtaIyQhzEXPy8b4RwYAuwyP5ZR1fa4BMMYg8 ewQ9d+oTPHuOYPjM3+88R/z3IXyIXkUCOs22pgbnMZCtoa3yYUznywftER4wSNdTG4zH cIrHQjqkTzYfACbeKDoLVGqwzt+mz08L2YugnGpuGdhnuBQDJKgc7m+LcVxFkmDmLJK1 8QmD/eNkA5oPN+ijXfp3HMxMbT/7ckq0A5e1HOcacppuBqLU464X7Sxm1v9oo+3hsfwG zIuw== X-Received: by 10.182.19.165 with SMTP id g5mr65268obe.10.1442765501934; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:11:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.246.36 with SMTP id xt4ls830212obc.98.gmail; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:11:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.114.196 with SMTP id ji4mr63894obb.11.1442765500945; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:11:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "H. Felton" To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: <40a60fc1-8bcf-44a3-8219-6b6433188f9a@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <55FE9E24.5020206@gmx.de> References: <55fd9766.544f810a.9ebb3.ffff8225SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@gmr-mx.google.com> <55FE9E24.5020206@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_330_195738801.1442765500258" X-Original-Sender: lojban@fagricipni.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_330_195738801.1442765500258 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_331_1139175802.1442765500258" ------=_Part_331_1139175802.1442765500258 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 coi mi'e la fagri cipni On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 7:53:11 AM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote: > la fagri cipni cu cusku di'e >>> ".a" is inclusive or, you need ".e". >> >> .e'e nai > > ( This is another thing that has changed, see: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Irrealis_Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.27e_.28UI1.29 > ) The new definition is definitely not what I meant to say. > That reminds me. When you said "mi'e fagri cipni" you said "I am a fire > bird". You need to use "la" to refer to something as a name. I just checked The Book, and, yes the vocatives take a "le"-type descriptor when fed a selbri; I'd have to be pretty weird in what I considered a "fire bird". >> "la selpa'i"? Would "beloved" be an intended translation of your >> name? > > Well, "Beloved" (with a capital B) is a possible translation, or > Amando/Amanda, etc, but I wouldn't actually translate my name to any of > those. The meaning of "selpa'i" is "beloved", but I'm just selpa'i, even > in English. Perhaps translation is the wrong word. I have never used the name "Phoenix" in RL, but I started using as it as a username at a low point in my life, meaning to refer to the legend of the Phoenix as described in this little interaction in 2010: Odyssey Two / 2010: The Year We Make Contact: [Chandra: ] " ... Now please open a new file -- here is the name." ... Chandra typed out: PHOENIX. "Do you know what that is?" he asked Sal. ... "A fabulous bird, reborn from the ashes of its earlier life." Well, fairly quickly I found that it had been used at many sites. I was also trying to come up with my lojbo cmene (Lojbanic name) at the time. For a brief time I used "la ror,k" (this was pre-dotside) as my lojbo cmene. I started out by trying to Lojbanize the sounds of "Phoenix", but then I started thinking of how to make a brivla of it instead, which was legal by the book, but at the time I knew of no one with a selbri name; I finally decided to go with a tanru (which is a selbri). The point is that I did choose my name for the meaning rather than the sound. Though, I could imagine someone choosing a selbri name for sound. One example of a possibility that I have seen is "la ka trina" for someone named "Katrina" in English. There's also the interesting question of whether one could use "la marca" for "Marsha". "marca" is a _morphologically_ valid brivla, though an unassigned gismu. The only problem I see with making brivla cmene with unassigned gismu or using unassigned rafsi is that a meaning might later be assigned, possibly leaving one with unflattering meaning for one's name. Long story, short. I chose "la fagri cipni" because of the meaning of the selbri. I now see that a "translation" of "Amanda" would be one way to end up with a cmene of "la selpa'i"; I hadn't thought of using the meaning that a non-Lojban name was derived from as a source for a lojbo cmene. mi'e la fagri cipni mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_331_1139175802.1442765500258 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
coi mi'e la fagri cipni

On Sunday, September 20= , 2015 at 7:53:11 AM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote:
> la fagri cipni cu cu= sku di'e
>>> ".a" is inclusive or, you need "= ;.e".
>>
>> .e'e nai
>
> ( This is = another thing that has changed, see:
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BP= FK_Section:_Irrealis_Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.27e_.28UI1.29
> )
The = new definition is definitely not what I meant to say.

> That remi= nds me. When you said "mi'e fagri cipni" you said "I am = a fire
> bird". You need to use "la" to refer to somet= hing as a name.

I just checked The Book, and, yes the vocatives take= a "le"-type
descriptor when fed a selbri; I'd have to be= pretty weird in what I
considered a "fire bird".

>= > "la selpa'i"?=C2=A0 Would "beloved" be an inte= nded translation of your
>> name?
>
> Well, "Bel= oved" (with a capital B) is a possible translation, or
> Amando/= Amanda, etc, but I wouldn't actually translate my name to any of
>= ; those. The meaning of "selpa'i" is "beloved", but= I'm just selpa'i, even
> in English.

Perhaps translat= ion is the wrong word.=C2=A0 I have never used the name
"Phoenix&q= uot; in RL, but I started using as it as a username at a low
point in m= y life, meaning to refer to the legend of the Phoenix as
described in t= his little interaction in 2010: Odyssey Two / 2010: The
Year We Make Co= ntact:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [Chandra: ] " ... Now please open a n= ew file -- here is the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 name."=C2=A0 ... Chandra= typed out: PHOENIX.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Do you know what that = is?" he asked Sal. =C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ...

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 "A fabulous bird, reborn from the ashes of its earlier li= fe." =C2=A0

Well, fairly quickly I found that it had been used = at many sites.=C2=A0 I
was also trying to come up with my lojbo cmene (= Lojbanic name) at the
time.=C2=A0 For a brief time I used "la ror,= k" (this was pre-dotside) as my
lojbo cmene.=C2=A0 I started out b= y trying to Lojbanize the sounds of
"Phoenix", but then I sta= rted thinking of how to make a brivla of it
instead, which was legal by= the book, but at the time I knew of no one
with a selbri name; I final= ly decided to go with a tanru (which is
a selbri).

The point is = that I did choose my name for the meaning rather than
the sound.=C2=A0 = Though, I could imagine someone choosing a selbri name
for sound.=C2=A0= One example of a possibility that I have seen is
"la ka trina&quo= t; for someone named "Katrina" in English.=C2=A0 There's also=
the interesting question of whether one could use "la marca" = for
"Marsha".=C2=A0 "marca" is a _morphologically_ = valid brivla, though an
unassigned gismu.=C2=A0 The only problem I see = with making brivla cmene
with unassigned gismu or using unassigned rafs= i is that a meaning
might later be assigned, possibly leaving one with = unflattering
meaning for one's name.

Long story, short.=C2= =A0 I chose "la fagri cipni" because of the meaning
of the se= lbri.=C2=A0 I now see that a "translation" of "Amanda" = would be
one way to end up with a cmene of "la selpa'i"; = I hadn't thought of
using the meaning that a non-Lojban name was de= rived from as a source
for a lojbo cmene.

mi'e la fagri cipn= i mu'o

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
------=_Part_331_1139175802.1442765500258-- ------=_Part_330_195738801.1442765500258--