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[2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a11si859382igv.3.2015.09.20.22.01.33 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of comcaresvcs@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c; Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so52914267igb.0 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:01:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.73.41 with SMTP id i9mr9233127igv.14.1442811693295; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1005:b022:6a45:355d:ea5e:91f2:8029? ([2600:1005:b022:6a45:355d:ea5e:91f2:8029]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ht6sm4885412igb.11.2015.09.20.22.01.31 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:01:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----FN5ZAH5JD11CT8R422ZF7YSJSCPDYY" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Digest for lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic From: Karen Stein Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 01:01:28 -0400 To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: X-Original-Sender: comcaresvcs@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of comcaresvcs@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=comcaresvcs@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - ------FN5ZAH5JD11CT8R422ZF7YSJSCPDYY Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In reference to "fagre cipni", many, many years ago before The Book was wri= tten I named my dog in Lojban using a similar process. I decided which of h= er characteristics were significant and could have their underlying concept= s transferred into the language. At that time names always ended in a conso= nant so I named her Krilin meaning "the one of crystal" because her fur was= nearly colorless and shined like clear quartz in sunlight (when clean ;) )= . I was, and am, karis. On September 20, 2015 4:36:35 PM EDT, lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com wro= te: >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >Today's topic summary >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > >Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >Url:=20 >https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=3Ddigest&utm_medium=3Demail#!f= orum/lojban-beginners/topics > > > - [No Subject] [2 Updates] > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/t/1be85ce52c196402 > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >Topic: [No Subject] >Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/t/1be85ce52c196402 >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > >---------- 1 of 2 ---------- >From: selpahi >Date: Sep 20 01:53PM +0200 >Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/msg/4e2a58028ae2f > >la fagri cipni cu cusku di'e >>> ".a" is inclusive or, you need ".e". > >> .e'e nai > >( This is another thing that has changed, see:=20 >https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Irrealis_Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.= 27e_.28UI1.29 > >) > > >>> "mi .erve lo cukta .e lo junla" > >>> (".erve" is just a shortening of "terve'u") > >> ".erve" for "terve'u"? How does that work? > >".erve" is just another word that is defined in the dictionary: > >http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/erve > >>> mi'e la selpa'i mu'o > >> "la selpa'i"? Would "beloved" be an intended translation of your >> name? > >Well, "Beloved" (with a capital B) is a possible translation, or=20 >Amando/Amanda, etc, but I wouldn't actually translate my name to any of > >those. The meaning of "selpa'i" is "beloved", but I'm just selpa'i, >even=20 >in English. > >That reminds me. When you said "mi'e fagri cipni" you said "I am a fire > >bird". You need to use "la" to refer to something as a name. > >mi'e la selpa'i mu'o > > >---------- 2 of 2 ---------- >From: "H. Felton" >Date: Sep 20 09:11AM -0700 >Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/msg/4f0c05e9c921d > >coi mi'e la fagri cipni > >On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 7:53:11 AM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote: >>>> ".a" is inclusive or, you need ".e". > >>> .e'e nai > >> ( This is another thing that has changed, see: > >https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Irrealis_Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.= 27e_.28UI1.29 >> ) >The new definition is definitely not what I meant to say. > >> That reminds me. When you said "mi'e fagri cipni" you said "I am a >fire >> bird". You need to use "la" to refer to something as a name. > >I just checked The Book, and, yes the vocatives take a "le"-type=20 >descriptor when fed a selbri; I'd have to be pretty weird in what I=20 >considered a "fire bird". > >> Amando/Amanda, etc, but I wouldn't actually translate my name to any >of >> those. The meaning of "selpa'i" is "beloved", but I'm just selpa'i, >even >> in English. > >Perhaps translation is the wrong word. I have never used the name=20 >"Phoenix" in RL, but I started using as it as a username at a low=20 >point in my life, meaning to refer to the legend of the Phoenix as=20 >described in this little interaction in 2010: Odyssey Two / 2010: The=20 >Year We Make Contact: > > [Chandra: ] " ... Now please open a new file -- here is the=20 > name." ... Chandra typed out: PHOENIX. > > "Do you know what that is?" he asked Sal. =20 > > ... > > "A fabulous bird, reborn from the ashes of its earlier life." =20 > >Well, fairly quickly I found that it had been used at many sites. I=20 >was also trying to come up with my lojbo cmene (Lojbanic name) at the=20 >time. For a brief time I used "la ror,k" (this was pre-dotside) as my=20 >lojbo cmene. I started out by trying to Lojbanize the sounds of=20 >"Phoenix", but then I started thinking of how to make a brivla of it=20 >instead, which was legal by the book, but at the time I knew of no one=20 >with a selbri name; I finally decided to go with a tanru (which is=20 >a selbri). > >The point is that I did choose my name for the meaning rather than=20 >the sound. Though, I could imagine someone choosing a selbri name=20 >for sound. One example of a possibility that I have seen is=20 >"la ka trina" for someone named "Katrina" in English. There's also >the interesting question of whether one could use "la marca" for=20 >"Marsha". "marca" is a _morphologically_ valid brivla, though an=20 >unassigned gismu. The only problem I see with making brivla cmene=20 >with unassigned gismu or using unassigned rafsi is that a meaning=20 >might later be assigned, possibly leaving one with unflattering=20 >meaning for one's name. > >Long story, short. I chose "la fagri cipni" because of the meaning=20 >of the selbri. I now see that a "translation" of "Amanda" would be=20 >one way to end up with a cmene of "la selpa'i"; I hadn't thought of=20 >using the meaning that a non-Lojban name was derived from as a source=20 >for a lojbo cmene. > >mi'e la fagri cipni mu'o > > > > > > >-- >You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this >group. You can change your settings on the group membership page:=20 >https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=3Ddigest&utm_medium=3Demail#!f= orum/lojban-beginners/join >. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send >an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------FN5ZAH5JD11CT8R422ZF7YSJSCPDYY Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In reference to "fagre cipni", many, man= y years ago before The Book was written I named my dog in Lojban using a si= milar process. I decided which of her characteristics were significant and = could have their underlying concepts transferred into the language. At that= time names always ended in a consonant so I named her Krilin meaning "= ;the one of crystal" because her fur was nearly colorless and shined l= ike clear quartz in sunlight (when clean ;) ).

I was, and am, karis.

On September 20, 20= 15 4:36:35 PM EDT, lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com wrote:
=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =
lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Google Groups
=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20
selpahi <seladwa@gmx.de>: Sep 20 01:53PM +0200

la fagri cipni cu cusku di'e
>> ".a" is inclusive or, you need ".e".
 
> .e'e nai
 
( This is another thing that has changed, see:
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Irrealis= _Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.27e_.28UI1.29
)
 
 
>> "mi .erve lo cukta .e lo junla"
 
>> (".erve" is just a shortening of "terve'u"= )
 
> ".erve" for "terve'u"? How does that work?  
".erve" is just another word that is defined in the dictionary:  
http://jbovlaste.lojban.o= rg/dict/erve
 
>> mi'e la selpa'i mu'o
 
> "la selpa'i"? Would "beloved" be an intended = translation of your
> name?
 
Well, "Beloved" (with a capital B) is a possible translation, or =
Amando/Amanda, etc, but I wouldn't actually translate my name to any of=
those. The meaning of "selpa'i" is "beloved", but I= 'm just selpa'i, even
in English.
 
That reminds me. When you said "mi'e fagri cipni" you said &q= uot;I am a fire
bird". You need to use "la" to refer to something as a name.=
 
mi'e la selpa'i mu'o
"H. Felton" <lojban@fagricipni.com>: Sep 20 09:11= AM -0700

coi mi'e la fagri cipni
 
On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 7:53:11 AM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote:
>>> ".a" is inclusive or, you need ".e".
 
>> .e'e nai
 
> ( This is another thing that has changed, see:
 
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Irrealis= _Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.27e_.28UI1.29
> )
The new definition is definitely not what I meant to say.
 
> That reminds me. When you said "mi'e fagri cipni" you sa= id "I am a fire
> bird". You need to use "la" to refer to something as a = name.
 
I just checked The Book, and, yes the vocatives take a "le"-type =
descriptor when fed a selbri; I'd have to be pretty weird in what I considered a "fire bird".
 
> Amando/Amanda, etc, but I wouldn't actually translate my name to a= ny of
> those. The meaning of "selpa'i" is "beloved", = but I'm just selpa'i, even
> in English.
 
Perhaps translation is the wrong word. I have never used the name
"Phoenix" in RL, but I started using as it as a username at a low=
point in my life, meaning to refer to the legend of the Phoenix as
described in this little interaction in 2010: Odyssey Two / 2010: The
Year We Make Contact:
 
[Chandra: ] " ... Now please open a new file -- here is the
name." ... Chandra typed out: PHOENIX.
 
"Do you know what that is?" he asked Sal.
 
...
 
"A fabulous bird, reborn from the ashes of its earlier life."=
 
Well, fairly quickly I found that it had been used at many sites. I
was also trying to come up with my lojbo cmene (Lojbanic name) at the
time. For a brief time I used "la ror,k" (this was pre-dotside) = as my
lojbo cmene. I started out by trying to Lojbanize the sounds of
"Phoenix", but then I started thinking of how to make a brivla of= it
instead, which was legal by the book, but at the time I knew of no one
with a selbri name; I finally decided to go with a tanru (which is
a selbri).
 
The point is that I did choose my name for the meaning rather than
the sound. Though, I could imagine someone choosing a selbri name
for sound. One example of a possibility that I have seen is
"la ka trina" for someone named "Katrina" in English. = There's also
the interesting question of whether one could use "la marca" for =
"Marsha". "marca" is a _morphologically_ valid brivla,= though an
unassigned gismu. The only problem I see with making brivla cmene
with unassigned gismu or using unassigned rafsi is that a meaning
might later be assigned, possibly leaving one with unflattering
meaning for one's name.
 
Long story, short. I chose "la fagri cipni" because of the meani= ng
of the selbri. I now see that a "translation" of "Amanda&qu= ot; would be
one way to end up with a cmene of "la selpa'i"; I hadn't = thought of
using the meaning that a non-Lojban name was derived from as a source
for a lojbo cmene.
 
mi'e la fagri cipni mu'o
=20 =20 =20 =20
=20 You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for thi= s group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send= an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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