Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 13:21:49 -0800 (PST)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Translations of quotes for my next piece
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2015-11-14 13:54 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna:
>
> 2015-11-14 16:15 GMT+03:00 Erik Natanael Gustafsson:
>>
>> 4. Koranen: The Quran 29:69 (Surah al-Ankabut) =E2=80=9CVerily! Allah is=
 with
>> those who do good deeds.=E2=80=9D
>
>
> wa-inna l-laha lama=CA=BFa l-mu=E1=B8=A5'sin=C4=ABna
>
> "And indeed, Allah surely with good-doers."
>
> Given that Lojban can elide selbri we get an even more doubtful
> approximation:
>
> ije je'u la alax ba'e bu'u lo za'u zukte be lo zabna
>

This is a typical {malxelfanva} containing two problems.

1. That part of the original arabic text is in accusative case, and I=20
interpret it as an expression of the circumstantial accusative. When=20
translating it into Lojban, we could:
1-1. translate the whole statement including the previous part of the text,=
=20
or,
1-2. supplement the part with a selbri so that the readers find that the=20
part represents the circumstances.

2. the form "I JA fragment" is not only officially ungrammatical but also=
=20
anti-logical from a point of view of logical operation. {i ji'a (sai)}=20
would be acceptable translation for "wa-inna", though it is not the best.


2015-11-14 13:15 GMT+00:00 Erik Natanael Gustafsson:
> 4. Koranen: The Quran 29:69 (Surah al-Ankabut) =E2=80=9CVerily! Allah is =
with=20
those
> who do good deeds.=E2=80=9D
>=20
> 4. .i ja'a bo la .allax. cu kansa lo prenu poi xamgu gasnu

For this specific part of the text, I agree to choose the method 1-2, and=
=20
use {kansa} as the supplementary selbri. However,=20
1. if you say {.i ja'a bo}, you should mention the previous part of the=20
text because {I BO} is a connection of two sentences, though I prefer=20
omitting {bo} and move {ja'a} into the selbri, {ja'a kansa};=20
2. the double "l" is not permitted in Lojban, {la .alax.}, {la .alylax.},=
=20
{la .al.lax.} etc. are acceptable.


2015-11-14 13:15 GMT+00:00 Erik Natanael Gustafsson:
> 3. Konfucius: "Wherever you go, go with all your heart."
> 3. .i ko klama ma kau ka'ai lo mulno cnize'i po'e do

What is the original text? If it is an English translation of "=E6=97=A2=E6=
=9D=A5=E4=B9=8B=E5=88=99=E5=AE=89=E4=B9=8B j=C3=AC=20
l=C3=A1i zh=C4=AB z=C3=A9 =C4=81n zh=C4=AB", you cite a very bad translatio=
n. I would translate the=20
original text into Lojban as follows:

(.i) ba'o klama ti .i na ja ko'oi panpi ti

where the experimental cmavo {ko'oi} of UI is intended to span over the=20
sentence connective {i na ja}.

mu'o mi'e la guskant

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>2015-11-14 13:54 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxok=
una:</div><div>&gt;</div><div>&gt; 2015-11-14 16:15 GMT+03:00 Erik Natanael=
 Gustafsson:</div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div>&gt;&gt; 4. Koranen: The Quran 29=
:69 (Surah al-Ankabut) =E2=80=9CVerily! Allah is with</div><div>&gt;&gt; th=
ose who do good deeds.=E2=80=9D</div><div>&gt;</div><div>&gt;</div><div>&gt=
; wa-inna l-laha lama=CA=BFa l-mu=E1=B8=A5&#39;sin=C4=ABna</div><div>&gt;</=
div><div>&gt; &quot;And indeed, Allah surely with good-doers.&quot;</div><d=
iv>&gt;</div><div>&gt; Given that Lojban can elide selbri we get an even mo=
re doubtful</div><div>&gt; approximation:</div><div>&gt;</div><div>&gt; ije=
 je&#39;u la alax ba&#39;e bu&#39;u lo za&#39;u zukte be lo zabna</div><div=
>&gt;</div><div><br></div><div>This is a typical {malxelfanva} containing t=
wo problems.</div><div><br></div><div>1. That part of the original arabic t=
ext is in accusative case, and I interpret it as an expression of the circu=
mstantial accusative. When translating it into Lojban, we could:</div><div>=
1-1. translate the whole statement including the previous part of the text,=
 or,</div><div>1-2. supplement the part with a selbri so that the readers f=
ind that the part represents the circumstances.</div><div><br></div><div>2.=
 the form &quot;I JA fragment&quot; is not only officially ungrammatical bu=
t also anti-logical from a point of view of logical operation. {i ji&#39;a =
(sai)} would be acceptable translation for &quot;wa-inna&quot;, though it i=
s not the best.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>2015-11-14 13:15 GM=
T+00:00 Erik Natanael Gustafsson:</div><div>&gt; 4. Koranen: The Quran 29:6=
9 (Surah al-Ankabut) =E2=80=9CVerily! Allah is with those</div><div>&gt; wh=
o do good deeds.=E2=80=9D</div><div>&gt;=C2=A0</div><div>&gt; 4. .i ja&#39;=
a bo la .allax. cu kansa lo prenu poi xamgu gasnu</div><div><br></div><div>=
For this specific part of the text, I agree to choose the method 1-2, and u=
se {kansa} as the supplementary selbri. However,=C2=A0</div><div>1. if you =
say {.i ja&#39;a bo}, you should mention the previous part of the text beca=
use {I BO} is a connection of two sentences, though I prefer omitting {bo} =
and move {ja&#39;a} into the selbri, {ja&#39;a kansa};=C2=A0</div><div>2. t=
he double &quot;l&quot; is not permitted in Lojban, {la .alax.}, {la .alyla=
x.}, {la .al.lax.} etc. are acceptable.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>=
<div>2015-11-14 13:15 GMT+00:00 Erik Natanael Gustafsson:</div><div>&gt; 3.=
 Konfucius: &quot;Wherever you go, go with all your heart.&quot;</div><div>=
&gt; 3. .i ko klama ma kau ka&#39;ai lo mulno cnize&#39;i po&#39;e do</div>=
<div><br></div><div>What is the original text? If it is an English translat=
ion of &quot;=E6=97=A2=E6=9D=A5=E4=B9=8B=E5=88=99=E5=AE=89=E4=B9=8B j=C3=AC=
 l=C3=A1i zh=C4=AB z=C3=A9 =C4=81n zh=C4=AB&quot;, you cite a very bad tran=
slation. I would translate the original text into Lojban as follows:</div><=
div><br></div><div>(.i) ba&#39;o klama ti .i na ja ko&#39;oi panpi ti</div>=
<div><br></div><div>where the experimental cmavo {ko&#39;oi} of UI is inten=
ded to span over the sentence connective {i na ja}.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la guskant</div></div>

<p></p>

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