Received: from mail-vk0-f63.google.com ([209.85.213.63]:32946) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZxvQP-0005pV-Oa for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 03:24:55 -0800 Received: by vkgy188 with SMTP id y188sf4937207vkg.0 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 03:24:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=BTHVJnojZBlHRXIbWEUpnB9Wz8naJzGU+Awh7gT74gA=; b=DE2GYVnex2CI2fdKiw0Vs7oQEsW/702vEWVbMhooRW6t1SnA8s4P2SOwPNmAC9ZIgA dudovlslzAL07FgqPXE+RL0/efga+tHmGfn2SEuYfgBlIGmee6XNW07wINTpIJAJUhvB E60rRKeRXVGzDTO30L1snEcchgTHZU533sVzNqPTL1ZVsXCEol3r4ITQcAIXcZnPP2qT fNDMSFCUXENY062oav1ZzaP9Hkr3U6wq/h+tKigg8pCr4klI+RLbgBvU2ExBKBjJrz25 eAR0PtQ49VAXCZSXPQvSgClcjQMwGgUlHvAQ0jpC9qVkSG94kdR62DY+F5mVwPp4eYWF YnBg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=BTHVJnojZBlHRXIbWEUpnB9Wz8naJzGU+Awh7gT74gA=; b=AJsYCI2vfKjs8QLFxhcSf46ODBMZqKRrKKkOm/UCiXpsgRCoErH1dr2Vv4sNpXOqiV YIpjP/mWtXBaI+BzvgwypbJus6YOIU0qRFq3cNA450B3+8eDbQiiHgW1umv7S7von6Ss pQQZobBbbMcUeyA2loivrFxRumozi2EO95BpLtm0M6n0oZCX7SAeWWzp4iH8i6wgs5O4 eUVFzphTFhsWNXEQIgyPjK98twYfCMCym1XE0+SEWR9KS1NZ4V0T2k7lOWSNCURoyTrv 5PGRxKRX25eodSapYTfAKGmmCHqgfzTnisz9l4otlFni5n0FxijNbIdC/ANR73EgtG/s L3rA== X-Received: by 10.182.191.97 with SMTP id gx1mr58996obc.11.1447586683374; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 03:24:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.230.75 with SMTP id sw11ls840169obc.77.gmail; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 03:24:41 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.247.5 with SMTP id ya5mr80992obc.8.1447586681318; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 03:24:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 03:24:40 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Natanael Gustafsson To: Lojban Beginners Cc: phma@bezitopo.org Message-Id: <087f7566-4de4-4d9d-b47e-d91384a98a11@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1601584.NjH9JpeGNy@caracal> References: <1601584.NjH9JpeGNy@caracal> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Translations of quotes for my next piece MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_813_1911948633.1447586680716" X-Original-Sender: eriknatanaelgustafsson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 12:39:35 AM UTC+1, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Saturday, November 14, 2015 05:15:12 Erik Natanael Gustafsson wrote: > > coi ro do > > > > For my next composition I will again use some Lojban and the text > material > > this time is quotes from important works throughout history. If you have > > any thoughts about important works or persons that should be included > you > > are very welcome to suggest them to me, but mostly I just need help with > > correcting my translations. > > I have done five so far, and there will be five more, but I'm throwing > them > > out here and any and all suggestions for edits are much appreciated. > > > > 1. Bhagavad-Gita: "Vet att den som genomströmmar hela kroppen är > > oförstörbar. | Ingen kan förstöra den oförgängliga andesjälen." = (eng) > > "Know that the one that runs through the whole body is indestructible. > No > > one can destroy the unfading spirit soul." (Translated via Swedish so > the > > English translation may have strayed a bit from the original) > > 2. Bibeln: ""And blessed is she who believed that there would be a > > fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” > > 3. Konfucius: "Wherever you go, go with all your heart." > > 4. Koranen: The Quran 29:69 (Surah al-Ankabut) “Verily! Allah is with > those > > who do good deeds.” > > 5. The Rights of Man: “Independence is my happiness, and I view things > as > > they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, > and > > my religion is to do good.” > > Could you cite chapter and verse for the Bible and Gita as you did for the > Qur'an? > > > 1. .i ko djuno lo du'u da poi pa'o lo mulno xadni ku flu'ente ku'o ????? > > (indestructible) .i no da daspo kakne lo pruxi ruxse'i noi na canci > > I don't know the Gita, so I won't comment. > > > 2. .i gi'e se cesri'a fa lo ninmu poi pu krici lo du'u da poi se cusku > lo > > cevni ku'o ba mulno > > * I wouldn't begin a sentence with "ije" ("gi'e" connects two selbri) to > translate "and" unless the [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.213.63 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (eriknatanaelgustafsson[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 BAYES_40 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 20 to 40% [score: 0.2959] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different ------=_Part_813_1911948633.1447586680716 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_814_1088818716.1447586680717" ------=_Part_814_1088818716.1447586680717 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 12:39:35 AM UTC+1, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Saturday, November 14, 2015 05:15:12 Erik Natanael Gustafsson wrote:= =20 > > coi ro do=20 > >=20 > > For my next composition I will again use some Lojban and the text=20 > material=20 > > this time is quotes from important works throughout history. If you hav= e=20 > > any thoughts about important works or persons that should be included= =20 > you=20 > > are very welcome to suggest them to me, but mostly I just need help wit= h=20 > > correcting my translations.=20 > > I have done five so far, and there will be five more, but I'm throwing= =20 > them=20 > > out here and any and all suggestions for edits are much appreciated.=20 > >=20 > > 1. Bhagavad-Gita: "Vet att den som genomstr=C3=B6mmar hela kroppen =C3= =A4r=20 > > of=C3=B6rst=C3=B6rbar. | Ingen kan f=C3=B6rst=C3=B6ra den of=C3=B6rg=C3= =A4ngliga andesj=C3=A4len." =3D (eng)=20 > > "Know that the one that runs through the whole body is indestructible.= =20 > No=20 > > one can destroy the unfading spirit soul." (Translated via Swedish so= =20 > the=20 > > English translation may have strayed a bit from the original)=20 > > 2. Bibeln: ""And blessed is she who believed that there would be a=20 > > fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.=E2=80=9D=20 > > 3. Konfucius: "Wherever you go, go with all your heart."=20 > > 4. Koranen: The Quran 29:69 (Surah al-Ankabut) =E2=80=9CVerily! Allah i= s with=20 > those=20 > > who do good deeds.=E2=80=9D=20 > > 5. The Rights of Man: =E2=80=9CIndependence is my happiness, and I view= things=20 > as=20 > > they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world,= =20 > and=20 > > my religion is to do good.=E2=80=9D=20 > > Could you cite chapter and verse for the Bible and Gita as you did for th= e=20 > Qur'an?=20 > > > 1. .i ko djuno lo du'u da poi pa'o lo mulno xadni ku flu'ente ku'o ????= ?=20 > > (indestructible) .i no da daspo kakne lo pruxi ruxse'i noi na canci=20 > > I don't know the Gita, so I won't comment.=20 > > > 2. .i gi'e se cesri'a fa lo ninmu poi pu krici lo du'u da poi se cusku= =20 > lo=20 > > cevni ku'o ba mulno=20 > > * I wouldn't begin a sentence with "ije" ("gi'e" connects two selbri) to= =20 > translate "and" unless the "and" is there specifically as a logical=20 > conjunction.=20 > * Is this "bless" "barukah/eulog=C4=93t=C4=93/barika/benedicta" or=20 > "ashrey/makaria/=E1=B9=ABovayah/beata"? I'd put "zandapma" for the former= and some=20 > lujvo of "gleki" for the latter.=20 > * "se cesri'a fa" is the same as "cesri'a", unless you also fill in the x= 1=20 > of=20 > "cesri'a".=20 > Aha, I thought for some reason that you couldn't just leave out the x1=20 without it becoming another kind of bridi, but I see I must have=20 misunderstood something.=20 > * "she" should be "ko'e/fo'a/ri/ra" or the like. I'd need the context to= =20 > figure=20 > out which.=20 > * I forget the word for "fulfill", but I think it's something else.=20 > * "Lord" should be "la .turn." or "la .iaves.", depending on which it is= =20 > in=20 > the original. If this is NT, the Aramaic makes the distinction but the=20 > Greek=20 > doesn't.=20 > The Bible quote is from Luke 1:45. Luke 1:40-45English Standard Version (ESV) 40 and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And=20 when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And= =20 Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, 42 and she exclaimed with a loud= =20 cry, =E2=80=9CBlessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your= womb!=20 43 And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to= =20 me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the=20 baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that=20 there would be[a=20 ] a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.=E2=80=9D =20 > > 3. .i ko klama ma kau ka'ai lo mulno cnize'i po'e do=20 > > 4. .i ja'a bo la .allax. cu kansa lo prenu poi xamgu gasnu=20 > > * There are no double consonants in Lojban. Arabic has three sounds where= =20 > Lojban has two, and this one is /h/, which is <'> in Lojban. Back before= =20 > dotside was accepted, I made up ".ala'um." as a transliteration of "Allah= "=20 > (the -u is nominative case, the -m or -n (I didn't remember which Arabic= =20 > has)=20 > is dropped in the construct state) as an example of a word containing "la= "=20 > which could not fall apart. But it should really be "la cevni" or "le=20 > cevni".=20 > Ahh, right. But if I translate Allah as la cevni , shouldn't I then also=20 translate Lord as la cevni? But this is perhaps more of a teological=20 question than a linguistic one. Though Allah actually means "god" right?=20 And Yahweh is more of a nickname, or a name.=20 =20 co'o mi'e la natnainiel --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_814_1088818716.1447586680717 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 12:39:35 AM UTC+1, Pierre Abbat wro= te:
On Saturday, November 14, 2= 015 05:15:12 Erik Natanael Gustafsson wrote:
> coi ro do
>=20
> For my next composition I will again use some Lojban and the text = material
> this time is quotes from important works throughout history. If yo= u have
> any thoughts about important works or persons that should be inclu= ded you
> are very welcome to suggest them to me, but mostly I just need hel= p with
> correcting my translations.
> I have done five so far, and there will be five more, but I'm = throwing them
> out here and any and all suggestions for edits are much appreciate= d.
>=20
> 1. Bhagavad-Gita: "Vet att den som genomstr=C3=B6mmar hela kr= oppen =C3=A4r
> of=C3=B6rst=C3=B6rbar. | Ingen kan f=C3=B6rst=C3=B6ra den of=C3=B6= rg=C3=A4ngliga andesj=C3=A4len." =3D (eng)
> "Know that the one that runs through the whole body is indest= ructible. No
> one can destroy the unfading spirit soul." (Translated via Sw= edish so the
> English translation may have strayed a bit from the original)
> 2. Bibeln: ""And blessed is she who believed that there = would be a
> fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.=E2=80=9D
> 3. Konfucius: "Wherever you go, go with all your heart."
> 4. Koranen: The Quran 29:69 (Surah al-Ankabut) =E2=80=9CVerily! Al= lah is with those
> who do good deeds.=E2=80=9D
> 5. The Rights of Man: =E2=80=9CIndependence is my happiness, and I= view things as
> they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the wor= ld, and
> my religion is to do good.=E2=80=9D

Could you cite chapter and verse for the Bible and Gita as you did for = the=20
Qur'an?=20

> 1. .i ko djuno lo du'u da poi pa'o lo mulno xadni ku flu&#= 39;ente ku'o ?????
> (indestructible) .i no da daspo kakne lo pruxi ruxse'i noi na = canci

I don't know the Gita, so I won't comment.

> 2. .i gi'e se cesri'a fa lo ninmu poi pu krici lo du'u= da poi se cusku lo
> cevni ku'o ba mulno

* I wouldn't begin a sentence with "ije" ("gi'e&= quot; connects two selbri) to=20
translate "and" unless the "and" is there specifica= lly as a logical=20
conjunction.
* Is this "bless" "barukah/eulog=C4=93t=C4=93/barika/benedicta" or=20
"ashrey/makaria/=E1=B9=ABovayah/beata"? I'd put &quo= t;zandapma" for the former and some=20
lujvo of "gleki" for the latter.
* "se cesri'a fa" is the same as "cesri'a",= unless you also fill in the x1 of=20
"cesri'a".
Aha, I thought for some reason that you couldn't = just leave out the x1 without it becoming another kind of bridi, but I see = I must have misunderstood something.
* "she" should be "ko'e/fo'a/ri/ra&= quot; or the like. I'd need the context to figure=20
out which.
* I forget the word for "fulfill", but I think it's somet= hing else.
* "Lord" should be "la .turn." or "la .iaves.&= quot;, depending on which it is in=20
the original. If this is NT, the Aramaic makes the distinction but the = Greek=20
doesn't.
The Bible quote is from Luke 1:45.

Luke 1:40-45English Standard Version (ESV)

40=C2=A0and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Eli= zabeth. 41=C2=A0And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary,= the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit= , 42=C2=A0and she exclaimed with a loud cry, =E2=80=9CBlessed = are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43=C2=A0= And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come = to me? 44=C2=A0For behold, when the sound of your greeting cam= e to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45=C2=A0And = blessed is she who believed that there would be[a] a fulfillment of what w= as spoken to her from the Lord.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0


> 3. .i ko klama ma kau ka'ai lo mulno cnize'i po'e do
> 4. .i ja'a bo la .allax. cu kansa lo prenu poi xamgu gasnu

* There are no double consonants in Lojban. Arabic has three sounds whe= re=20
Lojban has two, and this one is /h/, which is <'> in Lojban. = Back before=20
dotside was accepted, I made up ".ala'um." as a translite= ration of "Allah"=20
(the -u is nominative case, the -m or -n (I didn't remember which A= rabic has)=20
is dropped in the construct state) as an example of a word containing &= quot;la"=20
which could not fall apart. But it should really be "la cevni"= ; or "le cevni".
Ahh, right. But if I translate Allah as la cevni , sh= ouldn't I then also translate Lord as la cevni? But this is perhaps mor= e of a teological question than a linguistic one. Though Allah actually mea= ns "god" right? And Yahweh is more of a nickname, or a name.
= =C2=A0
co'o mi'e la natnainiel

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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