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[207.46.100.86]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id au8si260662igc.0.2016.05.26.20.17.05 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 26 May 2016 20:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 207.46.100.86 as permitted sender) client-ip=207.46.100.86; Received: from BN1PR0101MB0836.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.160.168.148) by BN1PR0101MB0835.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.160.168.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.506.9; Fri, 27 May 2016 03:17:03 +0000 Received: from BN1PR0101MB0836.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.160.168.148]) by BN1PR0101MB0836.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.160.168.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0492.022; Fri, 27 May 2016 03:17:03 +0000 From: Timothy Lawrence To: Lojban Beginners Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammatical classes Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammatical classes Thread-Index: AQHRtigzjGh2kqdgDU6erzgpM2nSfp/I6ekAgAAMu1eAAHIPgIAAymyAgAHsFUE= Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 03:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <574574C9.6090906@gmail.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-AU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [132.245.3.213] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b8ee37da-1d5e-4dcb-796e-08d385dd6030 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;BN1PR0101MB0835;5:0SJFN1e9QBQSIsqdSp9xaelyKE5l95M2jDwl+zrUXa5cIalJxPrcYQlmoZaXJ68xL8UgHTSzofUKWLeKcX03WeaP2fHGlxrMvtWXcYJnUVTlxx8I7ueH5ZG/uXhmKe2yNtLa22yCVH15GXgtkficGg==;24:UP4/aiyS62cL6+FzEId+oNeeSJhCODjPmBBDZan5pt8c4f1IaR/pKMqnfOJZHbQCHXN2106BgxBwUyWQYbEDbvXFdbySkbH14+xLj6NlYOg=;7:v6SdG96mOn48WYTRVNButUkxWGVOeWdo5QoDmzJsYgYyTsDycql+74oA/FKwMHZ2UKM2dFMwiHFJ/kG+7xmxVEnkKw1O3Zt/m0K+mOlqHEagO4UZggda2H9+U99HAbu7+9aN5Cxra4VGumtGzbAaoOWypjgq2ZT3EzWhxixcJ15m4dO5kRHHTUtJP3rYiM/L x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR0101MB0835; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(215639381216008)(228788266533470)(211936372134217); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(10201501046);SRVR:BN1PR0101MB0835;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR0101MB0835; x-forefront-prvs: 09555FB1AD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10009020)(377454003)(24454002)(586003)(3846002)(19625215002)(19580395003)(102836003)(6116002)(1220700001)(19580405001)(2906002)(5008740100001)(74482002)(92566002)(122556002)(450100001)(11100500001)(66066001)(19617315012)(19627405001)(93886004)(5004730100002)(5003600100002)(74316001)(77096005)(15975445007)(2900100001)(33656002)(2950100001)(19273905006)(50986999)(76176999)(54356999)(5002640100001)(3280700002)(14971765001)(16236675004)(10400500002)(189998001)(87936001)(9686002)(8936002)(81166006)(8676002)(106116001)(110136002)(88552002)(107886002)(86362001)(3660700001)(563064011);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;SCL:1;SRVR:BN1PR0101MB0835;H:BN1PR0101MB0836.prod.exchangelabs.com;FPR:;SPF:None;MLV:sfv;LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BN1PR0101MB0836BAC6777DE67E915E0E0BEB420BN1PR0101MB0836_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: connect.qut.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 May 2016 03:17:03.5865 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: dc0b52a3-68c5-44f7-881d-9383d8850b96 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN1PR0101MB0835 X-Original-Sender: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 207.46.100.86 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=qut.edu.au Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --_000_BN1PR0101MB0836BAC6777DE67E915E0E0BEB420BN1PR0101MB0836_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 "cmavrza'o" is a fu'ivla, i.e. a loanword? Does Lojban not have native terms for its own grammar? I am by no means a Lojban expert, but I was presuming the logical construction would be to combine words with the base "selma'o". Perhaps like: temci (time interval) + selma'o (structure word class) = temselma'o = the class of structure words concerned with time intervals = "ZEhA" (I think?) ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com on behalf of Andrew Sent: Thursday, 26 May 2016 7:52 AM To: Lojban Beginners Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammatical classes I don't see this used nearly as often as the all-caps class name, but I think properly lojbo class names start with cmavr. So the lojbanic version of the class name ZAhO would be {cmavrza'o}. See http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/cmavrza'o On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 AM UTC-7, Ilmen wrote: On 25/05/2016 05:04, Timothy Lawrence wrote: Yes, but "za'o" can't be used in Lojban for both that word and its structural class because Lojban has only one definition per word. In particular, how is this answered in Lojban? ma selma'o zo za'o (I hope that's correct Lojban?) And what are the other word classes? In order to talk about cmavo belonging to a particular selmaho in Lojban, you can either: * use {lo cmavo be lo se cmavo be zo za'o} (= "the cmavo of the same selmaho as {za'o}), or {lo selma'o dunli be zo za'o} (= "the things equal to {za'o} in their selmaho"); * or use the experimenetal cmavo {ma'oi}, which belongs to the ZO selmaho (thus, same grammatical behavior as {zo}): {lo cmavo be ma'oi za'o} = "the cmavo of selmaho ZAhO". Here's a nice mindmap that classifies selmaho: * https://mind42.com/mindmap/03d7fb74-986c-4418-bb14-2dfb86d21dbc mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_BN1PR0101MB0836BAC6777DE67E915E0E0BEB420BN1PR0101MB0836_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

"cmavrza'o" is a fu'ivla, i.e. a loanword? Does Lojban not have native terms for its own grammar?
 
I am by no means a Lojban expert, but I was presuming the logical construction would be to combine words with the base "selma'o".
 
Perhaps like:
temci (time interval) + selma'o (structure word class)
= temselma'o
= the class of structure words concerned with time intervals
= "ZEhA" (I think?)


From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andrew <summerfallsaway@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 26 May 2016 7:52 AM
To: Lojban Beginners
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammatical classes
 
I don't see this used nearly as often as the all-caps class name, but I think properly lojbo class names start with cmavr. So the lojbanic version of the class name ZAhO would be {cmavrza'o}.

See http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/cmavrza'o


On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 AM UTC-7, Ilmen wrote:
On 25/05/2016 05:04, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

Yes, but "za'o" can't be used in Lojban for both that word and its structural class because Lojban has only one definition per word.


In particular, how is this answered in Lojban?


ma selma'o zo za'o


(I hope that's correct Lojban?)


And what are the other word classes?


In order to talk about cmavo belonging to a particular selmaho in Lojban, you can either:
• use {lo cmavo be lo se cmavo be zo za'o} (= "the cmavo of the same selmaho as {za'o}), or {lo selma'o dunli be zo za'o} (= "the things equal to {za'o} in their selmaho");
• or use the experimenetal cmavo {ma'oi}, which belongs to the ZO selmaho (thus, same grammatical behavior as {zo}):  {lo cmavo be ma'oi za'o} = "the cmavo of selmaho ZAhO".

Here's a nice mindmap that classifies selmaho:
• https://mind42.com/mindmap/03d7fb74-986c-4418-bb14-2dfb86d21dbc

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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