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[104.47.32.86]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o123si83348ith.3.2016.08.08.23.25.03 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Aug 2016 23:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 104.47.32.86 as permitted sender) client-ip=104.47.32.86; Received: from CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.91.18) by CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.91.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.549.15; Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:25:01 +0000 Received: from CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.166.91.18]) by CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.166.91.18]) with mapi id 15.01.0549.025; Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:25:01 +0000 From: Timothy Lawrence To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" CC: Bruno Panasiewicz Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] djekarni (Diary): le karni fe la timoteios. Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] djekarni (Diary): le karni fe la timoteios. 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I gather you aren't using the word literally. I= s there a Lojbanic word for the concept? Oh, I read http://lojban.github.io/cll/13/14/index.html further and perhaps= pe'u requires a name parameter? So, would this be correct? pe'u do.i ko dragau mi The vlasisku fi'i dictionary entr= y does not make it clear to a non-linguist why pe'u "eats" while e'o does n= ot, so it would be good if that could be clarified in more simple terms. It= would also be good to link it to e'o. Examples would also be nice. I will probably use filta'a next time: .e'o ko dragau mi ki'u le nu mi na filta'a "=C2=ABlo dei se karni=C2=BB meaning 'the magazine-content related to this = sentence'" seems long-winded. Is there not a generic way to refer to "this = (entire) text"? I mean "text" as it is used in literary theory, not just on= ly actual text, so it could be a speech, etc.. Could I say this? mi ze'u ciska ti Was there something wrong with the logical implication of ni'i? "Plipe is a= grasshopper, thus Plipe eats grass" is what I meant. In regards to la plipe cu citka le srasu ni'i la plipe cu pipyjalra was there a way I could have written it using the equivalent of "it" or "sh= e" as per the English version? I didn't because I wasn't sure how. Thanks very much for your corrections :) ________________________________ From: lojban@googlegroups.com on behalf of Bruno = Panasiewicz Sent: Monday, 8 August 2016 8:04 PM To: mriste Subject: Re: [lojban] djekarni (Diary): le karni fe la timoteios. Hi and thanks for writing this! Now I'll do my best to correct what you've = written. On 8 August 2016 at 11:37, Timothy Lawrence > wrote: pe'u ko dragau mi ki'u la lojban.na verclibau mi So, first of all, =C2=ABpe'u=C2=BB eats the =C2=ABko=C2=BB, giving a senten= ce meaning something like "Please do so that someone corrects me". I recomm= end that you use =C2=AB.e'o=C2=BB. Then, =C2=ABla .lojban. na verclibau mi= =C2=BB, in order to be contained in =C2=ABki'u=C2=BB, has to be made into a= sumti with =C2=ABlo nu=C2=BB. I also prefer =C2=ABjbebau=C2=BB instead of = =C2=ABverclibau=C2=BB. So, the sentence would look like: .e'o ko dragau mi ki'u lo nu la .lojban. na jbebau mi Corrigez-moi, s'il vous pla=C3=AEt, parce que le fran=C3=A7ias n'est pas ma= langue maternelle. Please correct any of my language versions or suggest improvements - Englis= h is my native language so I hope I got that one right ;) fi'i ko spuda Again, =C2=ABfi'i=C2=BB eats the =C2=ABko=C2=BB. This time I'd use =C2=AB.e= 'e=C2=BB ('encouragement') for this sentence: .i .e'e ko spuda Vous =C3=AAtes invit=C3=A9s =C3=A0 r=C3=A9pondre. You are welcome to respond. coi le karni. i mi'e la timoteios.i mi xabju le sralygu'e. i ca'o le cabdei mi pu ctigau la plipe.i la plipe. Because =C2=ABplipe=C2=BB is not a cmevla, you don't need the '.' after it.= =C2=ABla plipe=C2=BB is all fine. If you want to stick to using cmevla, you can say =C2=ABla .plipes.=C2=BB o= r =C2=ABla .plip.=C2=BB. cu dalpe'o mi. i la plipe.cu citka le srasu ni'i la plipe.cu pipyjalra. =C2=ABla plipe cu pipyjalra=C2=BB is a bridi, and =C2=ABni'i=C2=BB can eat = a sumti. So you need to use =C2=ABlo nu=C2=BB, making it: la plipe cu citka le srasu ki'u lo nu la plipe cu pipyjalra =C2=ABni'i=C2=BB is a word for logical implication, so the sentence would m= ean 'Plipe is a grasshopper, thus Plipe eats grass'. =C2=ABki'u=C2=BB is a = better fit here. i mi ze'u ciska dei.i mi ba za'u re'u ciska. The first sentence says you've been writing just *it* for a long time. What= about this: .i mi ze'u ciska lo dei se karni =C2=ABlo dei se karni=C2=BB meaning 'the magazine-content related to this s= entence'. mu'o Cher journal, Je m'appelle Timotheos. J'habite en Australie. Aujourd'hui, j'ai nourri Plipe. Plipe est mon animal de compagnie. Elle mange de l'herbe parce qu'elle est un criquet. Cela a pris beaucoup de temps =C3=A0 =C3=A9crire. Je vais =C3=A9crire encor= e. Dear diary, I am Timotheos. I live in Australia. Today I fed Plipe. Plipe is my pet. She eats grass because she is a grasshopper. It took me a very long time to write this. I will write again. I'm really glad you've written this, and thus made my concept a real thing.= Don't hesitate to write again (or ask further questions). ~ mi'e la uakci mu'o ________________________________ From: lojban@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Bruno Panasiewicz= > Sent: Friday, 3 June 2016 2:19 AM To: mriste Subject: [lojban] djekarni (Diary) coi ro do (Hi everyone,) .i mi jai se kosmu lo nu stidi da do (I'm here to suggest you something) .i sa'e stidi lo du'u djekarni fi do (-- that is, to suggest making a diary= .) .i mi kucli lo nu ca ro djedi ja jeftu ja jeftyxadba lo jbopre cu gubgau lo= cinri .a'o fasnu pe lo nei (I'm thinking about having Lojbanists writing i= nteresting, I hope, stories of their own daily/weekly/twice a week.) .i ru'i ku lo nu troci cu xamgu (It's always good to try.) .i .au lo nintadni cu ji'a pagzu'e (I'd like to see beginners taking part a= s well.) .i da'i ja'e bo dragau (Perhaps we can correct each other then.) .i va'o lo nu no se lifri pe do cu cinri zo'u .yyy (In case none of your da= ily experiences are interesting, er,) ma krinu lo nu do za'o zvati la jbogu'e kei .u'i (how come you still are in= Lojbanistan? :) ) .i mi jijnu lo nu lo nintadni cu .ei ciska lo glico jai se djica ku ji'a (I= guess beginners should write what they intended to say as well, in English= ,) te zu'e lo nu frili dragau (in order to make correcting easier.) .i ta'o ba lo nu rau lisri cu se ciska zo'u jmajygau (By the way, when enou= gh entries are written, we'd collect them.) .i ja'e bo barda ke fatci lisri (This makes for a big true story) gi'e voi ro da zifre lo ka tcidu ke'a (that anyone can read.) .i da'i cinri sai (It'd be very interesting) fa lo nu tcidu lo me lo drata moi djekarni fasnu (-- reading someone else's= stories from their diary.) .i do ma jinvi lo sidbo (What do you think about the idea?) .i mi se pluka da'i lo nu do spuda fi tu'a lo se jinvi be ba'e do (I'd be g= lad if you sent me such feedback.) co'o ru'e (See you!) -- mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_CO2PR01MB208785EC9A0372414D341123EB1C0CO2PR01MB2087prod_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What do you mean by "eats"? I gather you aren't using the word= literally. Is there a Lojbanic word for the concept?

Oh, I read http://lojban.github.io/cll/13/= 14/index.html further and perhaps pe'u = requires a name parameter?

So, would this be correct?<= /p>

pe'u do.i ko dragau mi


The vlasisku fi'i dictionary entry does not make it clear to= a non-linguist why pe'= u "eats" while e'o does not, so it would be good if that could be clarified in more simple terms.<= /span> It would also be good to link it to e'o. Examples would also be nice.


I will probably use filta'a next time:

.e'o ko dragau mi ki'u le nu mi na filta'a=



"=C2=ABlo dei se karni=C2=BB meaning 'the magazine-content related to= this sentence'" seems long-winded. Is there not a generic way to refe= r to "this (entire) text"? I mean "text" as it is = used in literary theory, not just only actual text, so it could be a speech, etc.= .

Could I say this?

mi ze'u ciska ti



Was there something wrong with the logical implication of ni'i?= "Plipe is a grasshopper, thus Plipe eats grass" is what I = meant.


In regards to 
la plipe cu citka le srasu ni'i la plipe= cu pipyjalra
was there a way I could have written = it using the equivalent of "it" or "she" as per th= e English version? I didn't because I wasn't sure how.


Thanks very much for your corrections :)

From: lojban@googlegroups.c= om <lojban@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bruno Panasiewicz <ciuak= .prog@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 8 August 2016 8:04 PM
To: mriste
Subject: Re: [lojban] djekarni (Diary): le karni fe la timoteios.
 
Hi a= nd thanks for writing this! Now I'll do my best to correct what you've writ= ten.

On 8 August 2016 at 11:37, Timothy Lawrence <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au> wrote:

pe'u ko dragau mi ki'u la lojban.na verclibau mi

So, = first of all, =C2=ABpe'u=C2=BB eats the =C2=ABko=C2=BB, giving a sentence m= eaning something like "Please do so that someone corrects me". I = recommend that you use =C2=AB.e'o=C2=BB. Then, =C2=ABla .lojban. na verclib= au mi=C2=BB, in order to be contained in =C2=ABki'u=C2=BB, has to be made into a sumti = with =C2=ABlo nu=C2=BB. I also prefer =C2=ABjbebau=C2=BB instead of =C2=ABv= erclibau=C2=BB. So, the sentence would look like:

&nbs= p;   .e'o ko dragau mi ki'u lo nu la .lojban. na jbebau mi

 


Corrigez-moi, s'il vous pla=C3=AEt, parce que le fran=C3=A7ias n'est pas ma langue maternelle.

Please correct any of my language versions or suggest improvements= - English is my native language so I hope I got that one right ;)



fi'i ko spuda

Agai= n, =C2=ABfi'i=C2=BB eats the =C2=ABko=C2=BB. This time I'd use =C2=AB.e'e= =C2=BB ('encouragement') for this sentence:

&nbs= p;   .i .e'e ko spuda

 

Vous =C3=AAtes invit=C3=A9s =C3=A0 r=C3=A9pondre.

You are welcome to respond.



coi le karni.

i mi'e la timoteios= .i mi xabju le sralygu'e.

i ca'o le cabdei mi pu ctigau la plipe.i la plipe.

Beca= use =C2=ABplipe=C2=BB is not a cmevla, you don't need the '.' after it. =C2= =ABla plipe=C2=BB is all fine.
If y= ou want to stick to using cmevla, you can say =C2=ABla .plipes.=C2=BB or = =C2=ABla .plip.=C2=BB.

 

cu dalpe'o mi.
i la plip= e.cu citka le srasu ni'i la pl= ipe.cu pipyjalra.

=C2= =ABla plipe cu pipyjalra=C2=BB is a bridi, and =C2=ABni'i=C2=BB can eat a s= umti. So you need to use =C2=ABlo nu=C2=BB, making it:

&nbs= p;   la plipe cu citka le srasu ki'u lo nu la plipe cu pipyjalra<= br>
=C2= =ABni'i=C2=BB is a word for logical implication, so the sentence would mean= 'Plipe is a grasshopper, thus Plipe eats grass'. =C2=ABki'u=C2=BB is a bet= ter fit here.

 

i mi ze'u ciska dei.i mi ba za'u re'u= ciska.


The = first sentence says you've been writing just *it* for a long time. What abo= ut this:

&nbs= p;   .i mi ze'u ciska lo dei se karni

=C2= =ABlo dei se karni=C2=BB meaning 'the magazine-content related to this sent= ence'.

 

mu'o



Cher journal,

Je m'appelle Timotheos. J'habite en Australie.

Aujourd'hui, j'ai nourri Plipe. Plipe est mon= animal de compagnie.
Elle mange de l'herbe parce qu'elle est un criquet.

Cela a pris beaucoup de temps =C3=A0 =C3=A9crire. = Je vais =C3=A9crire encore.



Dear diary,

I am Timotheos. I live in Australia.

Today I fed Plipe. Plipe is my pet.

She eats grass because she is a grasshopper.
It took me a very long time to write this. I will write again.


I'm really glad you've written this, and thus made my concept a real thing.= Don't hesitate to write again (or ask further questions).

~ mi'e la uakci mu'o



coi ro do (Hi everyone,)

.i mi jai se kosmu lo nu stidi da do (I'm here to suggest you something)
.i sa'e stidi lo du'u djekarni fi do (-- that is, to suggest making a diary= .)
.i mi kucli lo nu ca ro djedi ja jeftu ja jeftyxadba lo jbopre cu gubgau lo= cinri .a'o fasnu pe lo nei (I'm thinking about having Lojbanists writing i= nteresting, I hope, stories of their own daily/weekly/twice a week.)
.i ru'i ku lo nu troci cu xamgu (It's always good to try.)
.i .au lo nintadni cu ji'a pagzu'e (I'd like to see beginners taking part a= s well.)
.i da'i ja'e bo dragau (Perhaps we can correct each other then.)
.i va'o lo nu no se lifri pe do cu cinri zo'u .yyy (In case none of your da= ily experiences are interesting, er,)
ma krinu lo nu do za'o zvati la jbogu'e kei .u'i (how come you still are in= Lojbanistan? :) )
.i mi jijnu lo nu lo nintadni cu .ei ciska lo glico jai se djica ku ji'a (I= guess beginners should write what they intended to say as well, in English= ,)
te zu'e lo nu frili dragau (in order to make correcting easier.)

.i ta'o ba lo nu rau lisri cu se ciska zo'u jmajygau (By the way, when enou= gh entries are written, we'd collect them.)
.i ja'e bo barda ke fatci lisri (This makes for a big true story)
gi'e voi ro da zifre lo ka tcidu ke'a (that anyone can read.)
.i da'i cinri sai (It'd be very interesting)
fa lo nu tcidu lo me lo drata moi djekarni fasnu (-- reading someone else's= stories from their diary.)

.i do ma jinvi lo sidbo (What do you think about the idea?)
.i mi se pluka da'i lo nu do spuda fi tu'a lo se jinvi be ba'e do (I'd be g= lad if you sent me such feedback.)
co'o ru'e (See you!)

-- mu'o

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