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[104.47.37.59]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x125si949432ite.3.2016.08.22.02.24.13 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Aug 2016 02:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 104.47.37.59 as permitted sender) client-ip=104.47.37.59; Received: from CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.91.18) by CO2PR01MB2088.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.91.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA_P384) id 15.1.557.21; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:24:11 +0000 Received: from CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.166.91.18]) by CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.166.91.18]) with mapi id 15.01.0557.027; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:24:11 +0000 From: Timothy Lawrence To: Lojban Beginners Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Can one be fluent in Lojban in the same way as other languages? Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Can one be fluent in Lojban in the same way as other languages? Thread-Index: AQHR/ADhK56aa1YsLU6Ar4SbwG2B5KBUsz19 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:24:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <67f3eb33-6881-41b6-8d4c-f7357c822705@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <67f3eb33-6881-41b6-8d4c-f7357c822705@googlegroups.com> Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-AU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [25.163.96.4] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b3ad2aea-a8e4-4a8d-36bf-08d3ca6e1374 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;CO2PR01MB2088;6:Q4/dK2fmo8Jgt/Dxzcer2gOrPxE7u26v1MP2Ao+ZD5gFZhJT6hnlDeA2NYB6U7Q+FXvtjzmng0JX0N72U+MenYXzDzaBgIl98dZgTOge1nuYLg8zFMBDH4Fk+Yu3x+V9YxHiYDLg8j/bF9ChOR4qy4nvckpTcSUkcZ7nICA/yLHbeKpGnMKZBfUt8qa32hcgDAFxKe2cGTAwV2jbby9qa+HIzXTmbvOthtewpx6CfCXBEE+DA8Qb9UJdCh/LjQscyu8HVb4iJ80dQ7KkfypgRCORfj3toaQQVwqkaE5+5Ew=;5:IAxpsvnC04I1PWUF+0LfQfhEUaW/NRolW/cZ9HL3Mthku0Mj/A18r8yDR3UjxIGjuLmfufr0kdQpHFxKh8VTOpjblyVUk/o0I6lgt5nd2gkQPwixWyYOgmjMLf83t21+rc7q5FBn43EQ/LgABYDLBQ==;24:/qKiNfmZaU7NWC7Ai02FRSHGCXfoM/ObT3KPSqig/NZfCNIYlwVYQ0oktgRJXdqDs2VqeOUFJEf2Ly3DbUlwGGfhglZQIeyIuIWUK4DWob4=;7:PmJ49NNF1VM7witbmWWoZVBlhMKTQi/vDj7Dh+3M5rZ07QNtxx03FywKoXD3nP3Ipm/CKOu1k8PAlVfJn3dJZi/Aowgkd9F1B0TyLJjl7mWhZWlBaPiduZZztqzUvueFVS+NRRbBOLXtizmMLCLSIFqthbLh2EHDzIjFsOSGQJMUyXVb8dH3m0XbA+BDoBPc4tAJMgUVZAuX4g7Va05PIKwnNm3JedTAlx8hAkvxRJsjWrFTzKXnEbnG8wibiDam x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR01MB2088; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(215639381216008)(228788266533470)(211936372134217); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(6040176)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(3002001);SRVR:CO2PR01MB2088;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR01MB2088; x-forefront-prvs: 00429279BA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10009020)(7916002)(189002)(377454003)(199003)(189998001)(97736004)(87936001)(11100500001)(5002640100001)(110136002)(107886002)(9686002)(19617315012)(19627405001)(2906002)(101416001)(19625215002)(16236675004)(102836003)(6116002)(3846002)(106356001)(586003)(86362001)(92566002)(33656002)(68736007)(19580405001)(3660700001)(14971765001)(88552002)(105586002)(50986999)(450100001)(76176999)(54356999)(3280700002)(74482002)(66066001)(15975445007)(74316002)(8936002)(2900100001)(2950100001)(8676002)(19580395003)(81156014)(81166006)(10400500002)(77096005)(5660300001)(122556002)(106116001)(7696003)(7846002)(7736002)(7906003);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;SCL:1;SRVR:CO2PR01MB2088;H:CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com;FPR:;SPF:None;PTR:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;A:1;LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: connect.qut.edu.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CO2PR01MB2087D31B9A2E1712E9F7AC53EBE80CO2PR01MB2087prod_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: connect.qut.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Aug 2016 09:24:11.0187 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: dc0b52a3-68c5-44f7-881d-9383d8850b96 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR01MB2088 X-Original-Sender: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 104.47.37.59 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=qut.edu.au Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --_000_CO2PR01MB2087D31B9A2E1712E9F7AC53EBE80CO2PR01MB2087prod_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > is the unnatural nature of Lojban something that blocks it from being lea= rned in that way? I doubt it. For example, I am fairly fluent in the programming language C++= , such that I create syntactically correct and sensible code on the fly, an= d I would say C++ is even more unnatural than Lojban. I actually think it will be possible to learn Lojban even more correctly th= an natural languages, because software will be able to automatically and qu= ickly point out mistakes, given the language is unambiguous. This computer-= checking definitely speeds up the learning of programming languages. There = are Lojban parsers, but I am not sure if there is yet anything quite at the= same calibre of a static code analyser for programming languages. ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com = on behalf of Collin Damskov Sent: Monday, 22 August 2016 9:08 AM To: Lojban Beginners Subject: [lojban-beginners] Can one be fluent in Lojban in the same way as = other languages? Is it possible to achieve the sort of fluency in Lojban that you can in oth= er languages where you can sort of intuitively create grammatically correct= and sensible sentences on the fly, or is the unnatural nature of Lojban so= mething that blocks it from being learned in that way? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_CO2PR01MB2087D31B9A2E1712E9F7AC53EBE80CO2PR01MB2087prod_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> is the unnatura= l nature of Lojban something that blocks it from being learned in that way?=


I doubt it. For example, I am fairly fluent in the programming language = C++, such that I create syntactically correct and sensible cod= e on the fly, and I would say C++ is even more unnatural than Lojba= n.


I actually think it will be possible to learn Lojban even more correctly= than natural languages, because software will be able to automatically and= quickly point out mistakes, given the language is unambiguous. This comput= er-checking definitely speeds up the learning of programming languages. There are Lojban parsers, but I am = not sure if there is yet anything quite at the same calibre of a static cod= e analyser for programming languages.



From: lojban-beginners@go= oglegroups.com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Colli= n Damskov <collin.damskov@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 22 August 2016 9:08 AM
To: Lojban Beginners
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Can one be fluent in Lojban in the same = way as other languages?
 
Is it possible to achieve the sort of fluency in L= ojban that you can in other languages where you can sort of intuitively cre= ate grammatically correct and sensible sentences on the fly, or is the unna= tural nature of Lojban something that blocks it from being learned in that way?

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