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[2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v70si276884wmf.0.2017.02.24.19.29.24 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeillus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e; Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id g10so22119660wrg.2 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:29:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.161.199 with SMTP id v7mr5442149wrv.146.1487993363512; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:29:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.163.220 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:29:03 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Ewer Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 22:29:03 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] The pronunciation of "o" To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045f157edc69080549527307 X-Original-Sender: eyeillus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeillus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=eyeillus@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.2 X-Spam_score_int: -11 X-Spam_bar: - --f403045f157edc69080549527307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Just started learning lojban today, and I can't find a strong consensus on the pronunciation of "o", which is...frustrating. It's in the *name of the language*. Note that I speak American English, and pronounce the examples given as such. And maybe that's my problem. There are two sides: 1. "O" as in "thought" (or "bought", "lot", "mob", "Bob", etc.) 2. "O" as in "boat" (or "throat", "probe", "loan", "dome", etc.) In camp 1, "thought": https://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_Crash_Course_(a_draft) - "as in *choice*, *not* or *ough* in *thought* (not as in *so*, *o* should be a "pure" sound)." https://www.reddit.com/r/lojban/comments/4nf60x/pronunciation_question/ - ""note" is certainly a misleading example. {o} in Lojban is like "OUGH" in "thought", like Spanish "o", it's [o] in English transcription." Inconsistent: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lojban.htm - The recorded pronunciations here are inconsistent. In the bottom one it sounds like "thought", but in the top one it sounds like "boat". In camp 2, "boat": https://la-lojban.github.io/sutysisku/cirkotci.html - (recording) https://mw.lojban.org/images/b/b1/Lojban_interactive.swf - (recording) https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lojban/Sounds_and_alphabet - "Back mid vowel, as in *o*pen, NOT as in *o*pera" http://www.lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure-utf/phonol.html - "*joke*, *note*" It is kinda leaning towards camp "boat", as I've gone hunting for further evidence, but the first link especially ("'thought', not 'so'") confuses me, it being on the official lojban page. Explanations? Thanks, Matthew Ewer -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f403045f157edc69080549527307 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jus= t started learning lojban today, and I can't find a strong consensus on= the pronunciation of "o", which is...frustrating.=C2=A0 It's= in the name of the language.

Note that I speak America= n English, and pronounce the examples given as such.=C2=A0 And maybe that&#= 39;s my problem.

There are two sides:

1. "O&= quot; as in "thought" (or "bought", "lot", &q= uot;mob", "Bob", etc.)
2. "O" as in "= ;boat" (or "throat", "probe", "loan", &q= uot;dome", etc.)

In camp 1, "thought":
https://mw.lo= jban.org/papri/The_Crash_Course_(a_draft) - "as in choic= e, not or ough in thought (not as in= so, o should be a "pure" sound)."
https://www.reddit.com/r/lojban/comments/4nf60x/pronunciation_question/ - ""note" is certainly a misleading example. {o} in Lojba= n is like "OUGH" in "thought", like Spanish "o&quo= t;, it's [o] in English transcription."

Inconsistent:=
http://www.omnig= lot.com/writing/lojban.htm - The recorded pronunciations here are incon= sistent.=C2=A0 In the bottom one it sounds like "thought", but in= the top one it sounds like "boat".

In camp 2, "= ;boat":
https://la-lojban.github.io/sutysisku/cirkotci.html - (recording)<= br>htt= ps://mw.lojban.org/images/b/b1/Lojban_interactive.swf - (recording)
= https:= //en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lojban/Sounds_and_alphabet - "Back mid vow= el, as in open, NOT as in opera"
http://www.lojba= n.org/publications/level0/brochure-utf/phonol.html - "joke, note"

It is kinda = leaning towards camp "boat", as I've gone hunting for further= evidence, but the first link especially ("'thought', not '= ;so'") confuses me, it being on the official lojban page.

<= /div>Explanations?

Thanks,
Matthew Ewer
=

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