Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::241 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::241;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <58670b24-3664-49b4-85dd-99eeef2c31a7@googlegroups.com>
References: <58670b24-3664-49b4-85dd-99eeef2c31a7@googlegroups.com>
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:41:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkSn5YXE-8FezDCKbHgKuW8Jf7gx+ded2HEnq4xNprtHXw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "I used to..."
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cec7ac29812054cd0fb8b
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -2.0
X-Spam_score_int: -19
X-Spam_bar: --

--001a113cec7ac29812054cd0fb8b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

    That is not standard usage of bu'u.  If someone put that in, they are
either mistaken, or using an unofficial grammar.  The standard translation
of mi bu'u pu zu viska would mean "I used to see around here"  (e.g. mi
bu'u puzu viska lo cipni = I used to see birds around here.)

  That being said, there have been a lot of people experimenting with
variant grammars, and I am a dinosaur is sticking with only what is
official, so that may represent the "irc dialect".  But from an official
standpoint, bu'u is only spatial.
           --gejyspa


On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Sarandib22 <danicamichaels@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I have been working on compiling a basic flashcard set for Lojban
> conjugations here, based off of "The Crash Course":
>
> https://www.memrise.com/course/1457818/lojban-conjugation/
>
> "The Crash Course" gives the following conjugation:
>
> *I used to see = {mi bu'u pu zu viska}*
>
> From what I've read so far, "bu'u" means "in, through, around," as in {mi
> cadzu bu'u le tcadu} = I walk through the city. "pu zu" would be "a long
> time ago." So "bu'u pu zu" would be "in/through/around the location of a
> distant time."
>
> First question: is "bu'u" even correct, as it seems to refer in all other
> cases to a physical location, and not to a temporal one?
>
> If "bu'u pu zu" *is *correct, this seems closer to the Spanish Imperfect
> tense than anything we have in English. "I used to..." in English *can*
> mean something like "I used to live in that city," where living there is a
> formerly sustained state now distant in time, as would be expressed by the
> imperfect. But it could also mean "I used to walk through that park," which
> is not a sustained state, but a habitual occurrence which might have only
> ceased last week. In that case, wouldn't "I used to..." instead be "mi pu
> ta'e..."?
>
> The difference would be:
>
> *I used to see = {mi bu'u pu zu viska}* <-- with the implication I no
> longer see, and am now blind
> *I used to see = {mi pu ta'e viska} *     <-- with the implication I
> habitually saw something (a person, painting, a view out the window} which
> I am now prevented from being able to see by time or circumstance
>
> Would that be correct? Should those two expressions be different
> conjugations in Lojban?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--001a113cec7ac29812054cd0fb8b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That is not standard usage of bu&#39;u.=C2=
=A0 If someone put that in, they are either mistaken, or using an unofficia=
l grammar.=C2=A0 The standard translation of mi bu&#39;u pu zu viska would =
mean &quot;I used to see around here&quot; =C2=A0(e.g. mi bu&#39;u puzu vis=
ka lo cipni =3D I used to see birds around here.)=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>=
=C2=A0 That being said, there have been a lot of people experimenting with =
variant grammars, and I am a dinosaur is sticking with only what is officia=
l, so that may represent the &quot;irc dialect&quot;.=C2=A0 But from an off=
icial standpoint, bu&#39;u is only spatial. =C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 6:2=
0 AM, Sarandib22 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:danicamichaels@hot=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">danicamichaels@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I have been working on=
 compiling a basic flashcard set for Lojban conjugations here, based off of=
 &quot;The Crash Course&quot;:<br><br><a href=3D"https://www.memrise.com/co=
urse/1457818/lojban-conjugation/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.memrise.com=
/<wbr>course/1457818/lojban-<wbr>conjugation/</a><br><br>&quot;The Crash Co=
urse&quot; gives the following conjugation:<br><br><div style=3D"margin-lef=
t:40px"><b>I used to see =3D {mi bu&#39;u pu zu viska}</b><br></div><br>Fro=
m what I&#39;ve read so far, &quot;bu&#39;u&quot; means &quot;in, through, =
around,&quot; as in {mi cadzu bu&#39;u le tcadu} =3D I walk through the cit=
y. &quot;pu zu&quot; would be &quot;a long time ago.&quot; So &quot;bu&#39;=
u pu zu&quot; would be &quot;in/through/around the location of a distant ti=
me.&quot; <br><br>First question: is &quot;bu&#39;u&quot; even correct, as =
it seems to refer in all other cases to a physical location, and not to a t=
emporal one?<br><br>If &quot;bu&#39;u pu zu&quot; <i>is </i>correct, this s=
eems closer to the Spanish Imperfect tense than anything we have in English=
. &quot;I used to...&quot; in English <i>can</i> mean something like &quot;=
I used to live in that city,&quot; where living there is a formerly sustain=
ed state now distant in time, as would be expressed by the imperfect. But i=
t could also mean &quot;I used to walk through that park,&quot; which is no=
t a sustained state, but a habitual occurrence which might have only ceased=
 last week. In that case, wouldn&#39;t &quot;I used to...&quot; instead be =
&quot;mi pu ta&#39;e...&quot;? <br><br>The difference would be:<br><br><div=
 style=3D"margin-left:40px"><b>I used to see =3D {mi bu&#39;u pu zu viska}<=
/b> &lt;-- with the implication I no longer see, and am now blind<br><b>I u=
sed to see =3D {mi pu ta&#39;e viska}=C2=A0</b>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &lt=
;-- with the implication I habitually saw something (a person, painting, a =
view out the window} which I am now prevented from being able to see by tim=
e or circumstance<br><br></div>Would that be correct? Should those two expr=
essions be different conjugations in Lojban?<br><br>Thanks for your help!<s=
pan class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><b=
r></font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.<wbr>com</a>=
.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-begin=
ners" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/lojban-beginne=
rs</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>optout</a>.<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lo=
jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-begin=
ners">https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--001a113cec7ac29812054cd0fb8b--