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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 18:00:10 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {za'a}
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On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does {za'a} imply that the event described by the sentence is witnessed at
> the very time of utterance, or does it simply means that the information
> comes from direct personal experience (directly/sensorily witnessed), even
> if in remote past? Is {za'a pu broda} nonsensical?
>
I would say the former, in contrast with "ti'e" for second-hand evidence.

I don't see why "za'a" couldn't be combined with "ba'a nai" or even with
"ba'a", even if "za'a [ba'a cu'i]" is te most common use.

We probably should not be mixing the time of the event (marked with PU)
with the time in which the evidence for the event is obtained (marked with
"ba'a [cu'i/nai]"). All combinations are possible, as it is possible to
remember (knowing) that something will happen in the future, and to expect
(to find out) that something has happened in the past. I suppose that in
the case of "za'a", the PU-time and the ba'a-time should match, but not
necessarily for other evidentials.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p>Does {za&#39;a} imply that the event described by the sentence is
      witnessed at the very time of utterance, or does it simply means
      that the information comes from direct personal experience
      (directly/sensorily witnessed), even if in remote past? Is {za&#39;a
      pu broda} nonsensical?</p></div></blockquote><div>I would say the for=
mer, in contrast with &quot;ti&#39;e&quot; for second-hand evidence.</div><=
div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t see why &quot;za&#39;a&quot; couldn&#39;t be=
 combined with &quot;ba&#39;a nai&quot; or even with &quot;ba&#39;a&quot;, =
even if &quot;za&#39;a [ba&#39;a cu&#39;i]&quot; is te most common use.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>We probably should not be mixing the time of the even=
t (marked with PU) with the time in which the evidence for the event is obt=
ained (marked with &quot;ba&#39;a [cu&#39;i/nai]&quot;). All combinations a=
re possible, as it is possible to remember (knowing) that something will ha=
ppen in the future, and to expect (to find out) that something has happened=
 in the past. I suppose that in the case of &quot;za&#39;a&quot;, the PU-ti=
me and the ba&#39;a-time should match, but not necessarily for other eviden=
tials.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></di=
v></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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