Received: from mail-ua0-f187.google.com ([209.85.217.187]:59166) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1e8va8-0004ur-Oz for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:57:26 -0700 Received: by mail-ua0-f187.google.com with SMTP id c28sf8331295uaa.17 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:57:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=QthizfBcjZsUibga/foiH6Gb71JkSiNHxyI+9fQT4zQ=; b=nWJvTBypx/LQm4a4WZkPjXd2BUmKykyTikXW1+nWYv3x7zUVCTRMFU80K6v9BWKW8V zRIsdRpz3qMWxXz2QFEPFEg8L1xEQswJL/7Ka2F4m5mwAicLKZyx47YhOImf+1O7AKbT DYjBrlMoAQrTt29UZi1LzyDx9qAQFy72xaJwR0RImjSZdSalVYeHhqlXJsSIqmjrV4+w EA/M7SfmLNFhyFk4fFrVAew/X8Vq2/uYXk3C0S5OHn6Wa4IIjpCTxj8uyNQGa86xUtcJ J+TRhN46Bz9liLvjQXXoH6hxayzKpjNz60jHcC6oPUNO+ftDm01fkrgQLgQC42b89/g9 vlXA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=QthizfBcjZsUibga/foiH6Gb71JkSiNHxyI+9fQT4zQ=; b=S36mCjQ+1td/rTF4ufzmOg15IiFFlj0iYal6mPQpFLlqLYZteDDbLLlGwODxv9S9UT 1Rze1RYuAsO39bp3vNvbnumjRVh3GzZjN0o3FqKRUIb0Opksaj/fPcq5aDSXLUfYnrQv a+n+y2mz6OaezkuOu0PZrGoRq4JhSTlOmYRVBjy+d9jdxYVoSuSaoqI8VxlM4ZhG3KXi 817pr24Zi9bQjwSXPq5RcQdfbiyyzxUgpO5I/hf9H1owVGPSz/5XtkBlFgljB//QMtfF WLlTJ03oVONIQ2GsyT60pKE/calUqFWo1BhDqB9MdaWVrqsUF8ReS/wl+RRMRXkP1mB8 jnbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=QthizfBcjZsUibga/foiH6Gb71JkSiNHxyI+9fQT4zQ=; b=Z4WP3fsVKFE9K7uihCZL/HqSJMADLDUJSPCleL6TeT6WFWL2Kjfd03b1X8zwL0hNDR K0Mv1iPCHvBo/yU4QnKJ3IGPmxAdTrlg4AV8KACn2/C2N/DuoRCfWS8EJno3PeTBooGb fNsmxQxVtuqFOTvgKk0uJpEmKdWazzRqHLe8i4N12tw+iL6nXv6GdKErb+jZIfAt4LBV uvM6wLVsAcYjLJKnIi+Z9BFS/3r9oXiOLOPC71jSO55SsqBnEv4dd7x2TXMzPRYpWlb8 AScO3NsJrIE67mZMcX79vNFBfzEQ8YIDC902/D8qiqPfJkh5VH7YWkpsIPuJS2b/dF3L 9Lqg== Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWBsdYz2cgNAZp8jsdOz1PYuU4HusQGIODS5WAZphPxjDsR9Abc 7JZOx0K3IO8He8r53ZGvmZE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TwQ3xrjVsPOOffwM7q5Qw/3OYcpw0rKqbnnEjmNpN2lvR395ZHmkVi4WjyjxIkmg9n1wzo8w== X-Received: by 10.31.168.133 with SMTP id r127mr1423751vke.8.1509314238570; Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:57:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.159.45.140 with SMTP id v12ls3825952uaj.20.gmail; Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.137.138 with SMTP id l132mr1416390vkd.14.1509314236884; Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:57:15 -0700 (PDT) From: shadowfirebird@gmail.com To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: <36d154f6-abde-4f22-9893-43e2359920dd@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <8e0616da-6a06-ca5f-94a8-8f7308f7b758@gmx.de> References: <5aad39ec-2fc0-4f19-a70d-a98a5fdbfb52@googlegroups.com> <8e0616da-6a06-ca5f-94a8-8f7308f7b758@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] except for MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_11055_1176378145.1509314236052" X-Original-Sender: shadowfirebird@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_11055_1176378145.1509314236052 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11056_1594455817.1509314236087" ------=_Part_11056_1594455817.1509314236087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, 29 October 2017 10:46:56 UTC, selpa'i wrote: > > On 28.10.2017 23:55, shadowf...@gmail.com wrote:=20 > > I'm way out of my depth here. Can someone give me some pointers on how= =20 > > to say "except for"? Example: "Except for eels, I like all fish".=20 > >=20 > > Is this some sort of relative clause that I've not seen?=20 > > "everything except for X" is equivalent to "everything that is not X".=20 > The usual way to express this in Lojban is:=20 > > mi nelci ro finpe poi [ke'a] na .angila=20 > I like every fish which [it] not eel=20 > "I like every fish except for eels."=20 > > When you have referents that are the exception, then {po'u nai} can be=20 > used to save space:=20 > > mi nelci ro finpe po'u nai ti=20 > "I like every fish except for this one."=20 > > ({po'u nai} is short for {poi ke'a na du})=20 > > Splitting the phrases as in your example is not really possible in=20 > Lojban, because it would be ambiguous what the "except for eels"=20 > attaches to, though if you wanted, you could say {fi'o nafselte'i lo'e=20 > .angila mi nelci ro finpe}. I don't recommend it.=20 > > ~~~mi'e la solpa'i=20 > > i ui ki'e se do Looks like I need to read that chapter in the reference on negation,=20 which I hadn't even seen up to now. Thank you... =20 > ---=20 > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr=C3=BCft.= =20 > https://www.avast.com/antivirus=20 > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_11056_1594455817.1509314236087 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sunday, 29 October 2017 10:46:56 UTC, selpa'i wrot= e:
On 28.10.2017 23:55, shadowf...@g= mail.com wrote:
> I'm way out of my depth here.=C2=A0 Can someone give me some p= ointers on how=20
> to say "except for"? Example: "Except for eels, I l= ike all fish".
>=20
> =C2=A0=C2=A0Is this some sort of relative clause that I've not= seen?

"everything except for X" is equivalent to "everything t= hat is not X".=20
The usual way to express this in Lojban is:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mi nelci ro =C2=A0 =C2=A0finpe poi =C2=A0 [ke'a] na .= angila
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I =C2=A0like =C2=A0every fish =C2=A0which [it] =C2=A0 not= eel
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "I like every fish except for eels."

When you have referents that are the exception, then {po'u nai} can= be=20
used to save space:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mi nelci ro finpe po'u nai ti
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "I like every fish except for this one."

({po'u nai} is short for {poi ke'a na du})

Splitting the phrases as in your example is not really possible in=20
Lojban, because it would be ambiguous what the "except for eels&qu= ot;=20
attaches to, though if you wanted, you could say {fi'o nafselte'= ;i lo'e=20
.angila mi nelci ro finpe}. I don't recommend it.

~~~mi'e la solpa'i


i ui ki'e se do

Looks like = I need to read that chapter in the reference on negation,
which I hadn&= #39;t even seen up to now. Thank you...
=C2=A0
---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr=C3=BCft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


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