Received: from mail-vk0-f63.google.com ([209.85.213.63]:39118) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eml3O-0004nU-Ja for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:48:16 -0800 Received: by mail-vk0-f63.google.com with SMTP id p2sf2132322vke.6 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:48:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=HsdM6ZRoKVrbFW28q7P8FTMYNySX93HjgK0YyxnT4mc=; b=jmEFBEMhqhHiAL4NEsJcIJ43LCtlAjkrMmaCTgisplo7RFVeu0v9wXnBBJlbQhfAay UvuPzLC1+G/nUQxbNSDAyF8vRVmwazgP99DpEGkIPVkkBaTqAAOdZ0dAg+mWtioBAcgK 1Ke+3bnHX6QBT+oqHJA45W48oY2s7DtikyCPrIjZUZITRkNZmMnDkNCdTPo2lssCl+Hh iyHKYZZ6t7kRFG9SyrERSMw+eYoqnNCyEP/ziwWTl3OlbYPAN/9Lz14FC6gpD/7l06Hw xiuGpdHeAxzzipk0yhhuRVXs8AUosuB6QHShYuc7qDTXKGQHdzEwxsMyk+3bIU05Upit rL6Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=HsdM6ZRoKVrbFW28q7P8FTMYNySX93HjgK0YyxnT4mc=; b=D+osZZ6e50DrCuFCOSaZJsx/MCWsJpB+FemWmaOF/McuJGUoc97g1GQN7iPf2BmDgQ uTvE91knQePFPFpB9sL2mrFy4ENkCmmeU3Gq0wJbTJpMnpRtYmCnm+HIviGGPNyH71eZ 4n+vGfrU+u1qTxkNRWDBb6xJ/b7WhHUOSWHRsptzp2n8dSPEUS5VujKtGAl8qLvUAECW Q9ioB/Gspmu0pudSp+k78VftVrxMDw24+k/643w5b2Qt95qQ40dNR5kmv5UxyTjTblAq 8bgLs5uCvvOs459M5K5KPMiBFF9pvz9wEK0Ds/e2r3Jumg9E1QSRVSqegr63MCp/Qkm+ oopw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=HsdM6ZRoKVrbFW28q7P8FTMYNySX93HjgK0YyxnT4mc=; b=bnPzXYrkPOX4V8jlNryVLDHffDSqjfvLcI8PKDNoGUFoo7OvRzg5vhDvdiu5RlQQU9 5T+N6N0kiJqINbOmvWutg16pFREXh1WHHUxq74ELYA0XekbeElWNfbVQubG5XtJAgoQ0 qIuSfWPv19snkG8emxev+eOJ1RdhRJsBDHM9oOrL3ae68McAiys7wpJs75ftPQZBVcph Rt7NVsVZCC8vtDWt56VIHBK4tuL1FzWGAEmBsPTfuRQ7DhCvyMmosU957czqTYo7p2xp o3Mjq00GEyBkgjKuqFW6PV36f50shLtErf1GuS/1Ow1MxvgaVanodvnDVCkXJ7MZOmFy kpYg== Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBg2upa3IH3PgOsSrl7rNNmZcY1vvdZUeiBDcCNOcVNs8SBvEKw VVQr0+FOZexaTI5xLBCpQTs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224/BtlSAD1MV+zyXjpCAgK6DIduOqgKbYbc+ClpSLMzTh7N6S1NiLt1g40EcOJ3jNWpNJsUyA== X-Received: by 10.31.164.11 with SMTP id n11mr724445vke.10.1518806888372; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:48:08 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.31.189.204 with SMTP id n195ls1532053vkf.15.gmail; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:48:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.160.5 with SMTP id j5mr1107043vke.6.1518806886969; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:48:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:48:06 -0800 (PST) From: volcpitar To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: <9dde04ba-9448-4e17-8b6f-3fe6f4be3cc8@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Clause connections and the equivalent of serial verbs: How to translate "Come and take them.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4470_983723858.1518806886392" X-Original-Sender: ivspnemi@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_4470_983723858.1518806886392 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4471_1037370927.1518806886392" ------=_Part_4471_1037370927.1518806886392 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Coi ro do mi=E2=80=99e la volcpitar no'u lo di=E2=80=99a nintadni be la loj= ban .i e=E2=80=99o mi bao la lojban. drani cusku dei .i pe=E2=80=99u ko se va= =E2=80=99u mi draga=E2=80=99igau=20 lo se srera pe lo go'i. Greetings all! I am Volcpitar and am back as a still new student of=20 Lojban. I hope I am saying these sentences correctly in Lojban and would= =20 appreciate any corrections. I have just been finishing my review of the CLL and the list of gismu and= =20 have a few questions regarding how to connect clauses. In the back of my= =20 mind, I am thinking about languages that use serial verbs or an equivalent= =20 to express stages of an action and am wondering how these should come=20 across in Lojban. To take a concrete example, how could you translate=20 =CE=BC=CE=BF=CE=BB=E1=BD=BC=CE=BD= =CE=BB=CE=B1=CE=B2=CE=AD (mol=E1=B9=91n lab=C3=A9)=20 (Come and take them!)=20 , the Spartans=E2=80=99 famous re= sponse=20 to the Persians=E2=80=99 demand to lay down arms and surrender at the battl= e of=20 Thermopylae? Although English can use a connective, clearly the meaning is really =E2=80= =9Ccome=20 to take them!=E2=80=9D and involves a single activity rather than two separ= ate=20 ones. How could I handle this succinctly in Lojban? A related question is how would I just say: =E2=80=9CCome here=E2=80=9D? M= y first guess=20 would be =E2=80=9Cko vi klama,=E2=80=9D but wouldn=E2=80=99t that imply th= at the entire movement=20 described by the selbri--i.e., the entire route-- is close by, rather than= =20 just the destination? Given the context, the best I can come up with for =E2=80=9CCome and take t= hem=E2=80=9D is=20 --{.i ko te ka=E2=80=99a vi lebna Or perhaps: --{.i ko ve ka=E2=80=99a ti lebna As for =E2=80=9Ccome here,=E2=80=9D the only solution I can find is --{i. ko ti klama Using =E2=80=9Cti=E2=80=9D as a translation of =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is a = usage that appears in the CLL,=20 but I have never quite been sure about using it to indicate a vague=20 undelimited place. .i xu lo zi xelvanva be fu mi cu gendra ja smudra .i xu zasti fa lo se cu= =E2=80=99u=20 xagmau be de=E2=80=99u Are my translations above syntactically and/or semantically correct? Are= =20 there other better ways to express them? mu=E2=80=99o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_4471_1037370927.1518806886392 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Coi ro do mi=E2=80=99e la volcpitar n= o'u lo di= =E2=80=99a nintadni be la lojban


.i e=E2=80=99o mi bao la lojban. dr= ani cusku dei .i pe=E2=80=99u ko se va=E2=80=99u mi draga=E2=80=99igau lo s= e srera pe lo go'i.



Greetings all! =C2=A0I am Volcpitar = and am back as a still new student of Lojban. =C2=A0I hope I am saying thes= e sentences correctly in Lojban and would appreciate any corrections.


I have just been finishing my review of the CLL and the list of g= ismu and have a few questions regarding how to connect clauses. =C2=A0In th= e back of my mind, I am thinking about languages that use serial verbs or a= n equivalent to express stages of an action and am wondering how these shou= ld come across in Lojban.


To take a concrete example, how could you = translate <= a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe">=CE=BC= =CE=BF=CE=BB=E1=BD=BC=CE=BD =CE=BB=CE=B1=CE=B2=CE=AD (mol=E1=B9=91n lab=C3=A9) (Come and take them!)= , the Spartans=E2=80=99 famous response to the Persian= s=E2=80=99 demand to lay down arms and surrender at the battle of Thermopyl= ae?


Although English can use a connective, clearly the meaning= is really =E2=80=9Ccome to take them!=E2=80=9D and involves a single activ= ity rather than two separate ones. =C2=A0=C2=A0How could I handle this succ= inctly =C2=A0in Lojban?


A related question is how would I just say: = =E2=80=9CCome here=E2=80=9D? =C2=A0My first guess would be =E2=80=9C= ko vi klama,=E2=80=9D =C2=A0but wouldn=E2=80=99t that imply that= the entire movement described by the selbri--i.e., the entire route-- is c= lose by, rather than just the destination?


Given the context, the be= st I can come up with for =E2=80=9CCome and take them=E2=80=9D is

-= -{.i ko te ka=E2=80=99a vi lebna


Or perhaps:


--{.i ko ve ka= =E2=80=99a ti lebna


As for =E2=80=9Ccome here,=E2=80=9D the only sol= ution I can find is


--{i. ko ti klama


Using =E2=80=9C<= span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); bac= kground-color: transparent; font-style: italic; font-variant-numeric: norma= l; font-variant-east-asian: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: = pre-wrap;">ti=E2=80=9D as a translation of =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is a usage= that appears in the CLL, but I have never quite been sure about using it t= o indicate a vague undelimited place.



.i xu lo zi xelvanva b= e fu mi cu gendra ja smudra .i xu zasti fa lo se cu=E2=80=99u xagmau be de= =E2=80=99u



Are my translations above syntactically and/or se= mantically correct? =C2=A0Are there other better ways to express them?


mu=E2=80=99o


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