Received: from mail-vk0-f63.google.com ([209.85.213.63]:49768) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1emlcw-00065k-5f for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:24:59 -0800 Received: by mail-vk0-f63.google.com with SMTP id d1sf2200584vke.16 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:24:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5sHEDCFG4eDFuyDdQAN/V8mknk936QnEU2lx0x5xqt8=; b=re7XGO9STR0m0nbjTZK89mgSKKpvPWE/k1xvyMLMSuCD2dluMBa/g5y8wwUBh7l+hD ILp6UgAeFlj1KIttP6mlZdI+FPQM0tNPeMhX8NoPueDyHBgCZ/6u4oc17WMVDIW3GXN+ 8lGrsYsfcsjpKbU37ax7F9d/tAo4mESMaRf3H3FdAsicUm+OWHX/vmq0aBUAZ8w3N11f VSomb+T+tHsVJMGWoTAxDDgyiYhYmnkirH+F7uv8Z77+II7Xxel0mJ9cjU7UX98eObks jog3TSNvE0LfuC/si2tD7li9cliXiesK8AdRAtLlPp5+VifGkJWmHkrPHz4qGiDizhG+ CKaQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5sHEDCFG4eDFuyDdQAN/V8mknk936QnEU2lx0x5xqt8=; b=FBLFnpZegOY/DkqW7HaKr9tI4uF9KUGNrcfnekCa+6AthkBzZxe+AY0L9pSLvNP8WL c7UQg75V1s+lJZRkhqhsa5PUlKldTbfthQt/cSL0eNbos2eY7eKvNAR8ILP/dXxqNztp p+gnMV+Dn9ccCxAz8P3QckZeItZRP9taJrllu/+OwSPq1TBg8ufQbbtgegmWAuQQO3/e NEXlSwvh+JfNiRPrRutlP+LNU9cCJphBvc+4pY+38HtvmnYkv6K2hnU57krxxxoAN6Nq K+CzidDGA5HNBYrWOaWu3G2NGW8l25gYm8bBjafEbrRPiPXQW2nD4aiOaj8r9BGVprd2 Wr9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5sHEDCFG4eDFuyDdQAN/V8mknk936QnEU2lx0x5xqt8=; b=T5yp+mkAcrKm60OhMKH55nIr+1T5SJ1U5ge4vGH6Ma5br7fPaHB6maQW71dDEss/OD 1w1I9Py6ZN/4s9UO8aDX41V4r6JjHRW/c4yw/5EX8Ek4j/Odce85Y6oxKyywFxG+1/8d Q/Lrpk4e1a+s25tWU1uDha992jl5UJpYF4CdBfP1PAWxuDdqpUm629K+ZDn3jxGfDaMh dDKw3WOgupFb70bHmR15UnzkWsUwvu/6TGAt/QgqP6kYsFMsW9ntcieQj29Txhz5XnBg 1EsGBS2oAlaQ4tGH7kl9t/2l/xG4PV978HchvCpYPINfRtUNY243oumkiQXiILQniTv4 PcSA== Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDq1+WCEBRU1rV4vQ34F38/lDhmD3ogaF7qZt4bCqklKguF0W6Q AQxADmDItyN2xPv7orEaR+s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225rx4iMEo9cbnmTebcYwzeQTq4tPMbGjdtp/U5r622U7B9DcV86vIshpnHe38OUkrLhL/r2ZA== X-Received: by 10.31.164.11 with SMTP id n11mr735865vke.10.1518809092067; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:24:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.31.120.9 with SMTP id t9ls1548270vkc.13.gmail; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:24:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.16.33 with SMTP id g33mr1116523vki.13.1518809090964; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:24:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: volcpitar To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: <3debdce7-7f50-42ab-b43f-e09f66045a1a@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Connecting clauses and serial verbs: How best to translate "Come and take them" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_571_1900616840.1518809090551" X-Original-Sender: ivspnemi@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_571_1900616840.1518809090551 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_572_695514387.1518809090552" ------=_Part_572_695514387.1518809090552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Coi ro do mi=E2=80=99e lo di=E2=80=99a nintadni be la lojban. be=E2=80=99u = no=E2=80=99u la volcpitar=20 .i a=E2=80=99o mi bau drani cusku dei .i pe=E2=80=99u ko se va=E2=80=99u mi= draga=E2=80=99igau lo se srera=20 pe dei. Greetings all! I am a repeat new student of Lojban going by the name of=20 Volcpitar. I hope I am saying these sentences correctly from a linguistic= =20 point of view and would appreciate any corrections. I have just been finishing my review of the CLL and the list of gismu and= =20 have a few questions regarding how to connect clauses. In the back of my= =20 mind, I am thinking about languages that use serial verbs or an equivalent= =20 to express stages of an action and am wondering how these should come=20 across in Lojban. To take a concrete example, how could you translate =CE=BC=CE=BF=CE=BB=E1= =BD=BC=CE=BD =CE=BB=CE=B1=CE=B2=CE=AD (mol=E1=B9=91n lab=C3=A9) (Come=20 and take them!), the Spartans=E2=80=99 famous response to the Persians=E2= =80=99 demand to=20 lay down their arms and surrender at the battle of Thermopylae? Although English can use a connective, clearly the meaning is really =E2=80= =9Ccome=20 to take them!=E2=80=9D and involves a single activity rather than two separ= ate=20 ones. How could I handle this succinctly in Lojban? A related question is how would I just say: =E2=80=9CCome here=E2=80=9D? M= y first guess=20 would be =E2=80=9Cko vi klama,=E2=80=9D but wouldn=E2=80=99t that imply th= at the entire movement=20 described by the selbri--i.e., the entire route-- is close by, rather than= =20 just the destination? Given the context, the best I can come up with for =E2=80=9CCome and take t= hem=E2=80=9D is=20 --{.i ko te ka=E2=80=99a vi lebna Or perhaps: --{.i ko ve ka=E2=80=99a ti lebna As for =E2=80=9Ccome here,=E2=80=9D the only solution I can find is --{i. ko ti klama Using =E2=80=9Cti=E2=80=9D as a translation of =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is a = usage that appears in the CLL,=20 but I have never quite been sure about using it to indicate a vague=20 undelimited place. .i xu lo zi xelvanva be fu mi cu gendra ja smudra .i xu zasti fa lo se cu= =E2=80=99u=20 xagmau be de=E2=80=99u Are my translations above syntactically and/or semantically correct? Are= =20 there other better ways to express them? By the way, I tried to edit my original post, but couldn't figure out how= =20 to do it and ended up deleting it. Sorry for any inconvenience mu=E2=80=99o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_572_695514387.1518809090552 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Coi ro do mi=E2=80=99e lo di=E2=80=99a nintadni be la lojban. be=E2=80= =99u no=E2=80=99u la volcpitar


.i a=E2=80=99o mi bau drani cusku de= i .i pe=E2=80=99u ko se va=E2=80=99u mi draga=E2=80=99igau lo se srera pe d= ei.


Greetings all! =C2=A0I am a repeat new student of Lojban going b= y the name of Volcpitar. =C2=A0I hope I am saying these sentences correctly= from a linguistic point of view and would appreciate any corrections.



I have just been finishing my review of the CLL and the list of = gismu and have a few questions regarding how to connect clauses. =C2=A0In t= he back of my mind, I am thinking about languages that use serial verbs or = an equivalent to express stages of an action and am wondering how these sho= uld come across in Lojban.


To take a concrete example, how could you= translate =CE=BC=CE=BF=CE=BB=E1=BD=BC=CE=BD =CE=BB= =CE=B1=CE=B2=CE=AD (mol=E1=B9= =91n lab=C3=A9) (Come and take them!), the Spartans= =E2=80=99 famous response to the Persians=E2=80=99 demand to lay down their = arms and surrender at the battle of Thermopylae?


Although English ca= n use a connective, clearly the meaning is really =E2=80=9Ccome to take the= m!=E2=80=9D and involves a single activity rather than two separate ones. = =C2=A0=C2=A0How could I handle this succinctly =C2=A0in Lojban?

<= br>

A re= lated question is how would I just say: =E2=80=9CCome here=E2=80=9D? =C2=A0= My first guess would be =E2=80=9Cko vi klama,=E2=80=9D = =C2=A0but wouldn=E2=80=99t that imply that the entire movement described by= the selbri--i.e., the entire route-- is close by, rather than just the des= tination?


Given the context, the best I can come up with for =E2=80= =9CCome and take them=E2=80=9D is


--{.i ko te ka=E2=80=99a vi lebna=


Or perhaps:


--{.i ko ve ka=E2=80=99a ti lebna


=

As for = =E2=80=9Ccome here,=E2=80=9D the only solution I can find is


=

--{i. k= o ti klama


Using =E2=80=9Cti=E2=80=9D as a transla= tion of =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is a usage that appears in the CLL, but I ha= ve never quite been sure about using it to indicate a vague undelimited pla= ce.



.i xu lo zi xelvanva be fu mi cu gendra ja smudra .i xu = zasti fa lo se cu=E2=80=99u xagmau be de=E2=80=99u


Are my translatio= ns above syntactically and/or semantically correct? =C2=A0Are there other b= etter ways to express them?



By the way, I tried to edit= my original post, but couldn't figure out how to do it and ended up de= leting it. Sorry for any inconvenience


mu=E2=80=99o


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