From gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch Sat Feb 22 08:29:27 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail5.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.207]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18mcWl-0006gy-00 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:29:27 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer (213.3.153.101) by mail5.bluewin.ch (Bluewin AG 6.7.015) id 3E10609000645261 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:29:22 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c2da8f$67e5ff20$659903d5@oemcomputer> From: "G. Dyke" To: References: <200302220519.h1M5Jfs6000898@miriam.letu.edu> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: (No Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:27:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-archive-position: 172 X-Approved-By: gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners cu'u la geib > > li pamoi > .i xu kakne lenu lo tanru se finti fo la'o gy. pro sumti gy. > > In case that's wrong, here's what I wanted: Can tanru be made with pro-sumti? The particular > sentence that brought this to mind was, "Hungry, I come to the table." There're probably better > ways--which I'd like to see, also--to translate the thought, but I wanted to know whether tanru > even can be used with pro-sumti. > > (le mi xagji) means "my hungerer," so what would be "the hungry me"? The lojban sentence was correct. Strangely enough, many prosumti have rafsi, enabling the construction of lujvo, but there is no elegant way of making them into brivla. In this case, it's not necessary, particularly as it's a strange metaphysics where you view yourself differently depending on the state you are in : "the hungry me", "the tall me" etc. Various suggestions: i mi noi xagji cu klama le jubme i mi xagji klama le jubme i mi xagji ke jubme klama i ca le nu mi xagji kei mi klama le jubme i va'o le nu mi xagji kei mi klama le jubme i mi va'o le za'i mi xagji kei klama le jubme i mi fi'o xagji fe'u klama le jubme (I don't know whether this is very different from my 2nd suggestion) > > li cimoi > "A sqare is a rectangle but not vice versa." > Good Lojban translations & even attempts at similar word order, both requested. rectangle: kurfa square : kubli kurfa/ kubykurfa (x1 is a right-angled regular polygon/hedron of x2 dimensions (def. 2)) the trouble is turning "a square" back into a predicate to work the vice versa. {lo kubykurfa cu kurfa ijenai lo go'i me le go'i} err ick the long way of doing this is: {roda poi kubykurfa zo'u da kurfa ijenai rode poi kurfa zo'u de kubykurfa}== {roda poi kubykurfa cu kurfa ijenai rode poi kurfa cu kubykurfa} there may be some way of doing {all squares (rectangles respectively) are (are not respectively) rectangles (squares respectivley)} my favorite: {le'i kubykurfa cu klesi jenai se klesi le'i kurfa} (ok, that's a kind of mathematical definition) > > li mumoi > What's the meaning of "this" in "What's the meaning of this?"? > Not ti/ta/tu or vi/va/vu, but the recent situation. huh? > > li xamoi > .i tu'a lo tanru cu cfipu mi leka ce'u zunle ce'u kei .a leka pritu > tanru feel different from the rest of the language that I know thus far, because it seems each > new part of the tanru changes the interpretation of the word that came before. > > (do spuda) You reply. (do spuda melbi) You're beautiful at replying. > In more complicated examples, the listener would initially think the first word of the tanru was > the selbri and start interpreting the sumti which he's already heard according to that word, but > then wait! there's more, and the sumti would need to be reconsidered. Oh, yeah: the question > was, What's the best way to get the hang of tanru? This doesn't seem to be a problem (although those who actually have engaged in lojban conversation could tell you better) and happens in natlangs as well: "The boy pushed through the crowd was eight years old" > > Finally, would "selpamoi" etc. or something else be better introductions for a numbered list? mo'o MAI section ordinal higher-order utterance ordinal suffix; converts a number to ordinal, usually a section/chapter mai MAI sentence ordinal utterance ordinal suffix; converts a number to an ordinal, such as an item or paragraph number > ki'e mu'o mi'e geib. je'e i mi gleki mu'o mi'e greg