From rspeer@MIT.EDU Sun Feb 23 01:04:39 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:04:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu ([18.7.7.76]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18ms3r-0006aq-00 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:04:39 -0800 Received: from grand-central-station.mit.edu (GRAND-CENTRAL-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.82]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA18018 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 04:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (MELBOURNE-CITY-STREET.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.86]) by grand-central-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA21782 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 04:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from random-three-ninety-six.mit.edu (RANDOM-THREE-NINETY-SIX.MIT.EDU [18.243.6.141]) by melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA16790 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 04:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from rob by random-three-ninety-six.mit.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18ms3n-0004Hk-00 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 04:04:35 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 04:04:35 -0500 From: Rob Speer To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: [lojban-beginners] Message-ID: <20030223090435.GB16129@mit.edu> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org References: <20030131004748.GC21844@digitalkingdom.org> <200302220519.h1M5Jfs6000898@miriam.letu.edu> <20030222195337.GE21342@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030222195337.GE21342@digitalkingdom.org> X-Is-It-Not-Nifty: www.sluggy.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-archive-position: 178 X-Approved-By: rspeer@MIT.EDU X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: rspeer@MIT.EDU Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Sat, Feb 22, 2003 at 11:53:37AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > li cimoi > > "A sqare is a rectangle but not vice versa." > > Good Lojban translations & even attempts at similar word order, both requested. > > You come up with words for 'square' and 'rectangle' and I'll give you > the sentence. 8) > > Note that kurfa is *both*. le'i kubykurfa cu klesi le'i kurfa .iku'i na go'i soi lenei This sentence will require some explanation: {kubli} refers to all regular polygons and polyhedra, but happens to mean "cube" by default. {kurfa} refers to all right-angled shapes and happens to be in two dimensions by default. The only two-dimensional shape that is both {kurfa} and {kubli} is a square, so I'd say that the lujvo {kubykurfa} is apt for "square". (A {kubli kurfa} could be a cube or a tesseract or whatever, but lujvo have one defined meaning.) So. A literal translation would be "The set of regular-rectangles is a class/subset of the set of rectangles. However, it is false that the previous statement remains true when its places are switched." {soi lenei} is an idiom for "vice versa" - it switches the first place of the bridi with another place. {soi vo'a} is probably more commonly used, but I think it's important to get used to using {lenei}. One day you may use {soi} inside an abstraction, in which case {lenei} will grab a sumti from inside the abstraction while {vo'a} grabs one from outside, and {lenei} is probably what you want. -- mu'o mi'e rab.spir