From rslau@mindspring.com Wed Feb 25 06:52:48 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Aw0P1-0004vv-RP for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 06:52:47 -0800 Received: from user-38ld13a.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.132.106] helo=sodor.mindspring.com) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aw0P0-0003N8-00 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:52:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sodor.mindspring.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3CC41F4 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:51:44 -0500 (EST) To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: precise definition of cmene In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:28:42 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:51:44 -0500 From: Bob Slaughter Message-Id: <20040225145144.4D3CC41F4@sodor.mindspring.com> X-archive-position: 519 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: rslau@mindspring.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners > OK, thanks, making more sense now . . . but "Labrador Retriever," for > example, is a breed. Could I then say "la labrydor.rytrivyr." although > that is not a Latin classification? Or is that considered too vague since > it isn't biologically defined? > > How *would* I say that Deena is a mutt? Could I say > > la dinas. gerku le mixre Sure. > Could I even say > > la dinas. mixre la labrydor.rytrivyr. > > if I wanted to specify that she is a Lab mix? I think this is OK, *but* "la labrydor.rytrivyr." like any other cmene carries *no* real 'meaning'. A speaker of English will recognize what you trying to do, but a native speaker of French won't, no more so than most of us know that "Mary" comes from "myrhh", and means "bitter". > We like our dog, and talk about her a lot. .a'i The sentence of type "X is Y" is one of the worst to move to Lojban, because of the multiple uses and meanings of "is" in English. Look this one up, and see if it also conveys your intentions: la dinas. gerku pisu'oroda Realize that the second sumti is a *number*. Also, what about this one: la dinas. gerku zo'e Normally, "zo'e" is the same as leaving the sumti blank, but in this case, it clarifies that she is of some specifically unspecified breed. Remember, adding sumti *restricts* or *narrows* the statement. Does specifying she is a mutt actually meaningfully *restrict* the statement "la dinas. gerku" in the same way as specifying a breed would for a pure-bred dog? Then there are the mass/set articles, which can also be used to specify which breeds she is part of. I'll let others more trained than I talk about those. -- Bob Slaughter, rslau@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/ North Georgia Modurail: http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/ngm/ In which language of the world does the word 'taxi' mean "I cannot drive"? e'osai ko sarji la lojban fo lonu pilno -- http://www.lojban.org/