From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Feb 25 14:45:37 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net ([68.1.17.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Aw7mb-0007zT-04 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:45:37 -0800 Received: from bob.lojban.org ([68.228.12.146]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040225224506.ZCNQ24274.lakemtao04.cox.net@bob.lojban.org> for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:45:06 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040225170136.0429dec0@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: lojbab@pop.east.cox.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:39:19 -0500 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Bob LeChevalier Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: precise definition of cmene In-Reply-To: <403CE5E7.6080106@nc.rr.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040225035949.03604d10@pop.east.cox.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040225035949.03604d10@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 525 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners At 01:13 PM 2/25/04 -0500, you wrote: >Ever since Melissa asked, I've been wondering how you could tell the >difference between a person named Mutt and something that is classified as >a mutt (mixre gerku). Does this rely purely on context? A person named "mutt" might be la myt. This relies on the common recognition between speaker and listener of the basis of naming, which is entirely contextual. Something classified as a member of a class named "mutt" might be "lai myt" something classified a mixre gerku would be "lo mixre gerku". This is NOT a name, but rather a description, and requires that the thing actually be a dog that is in some way considered "mixture" >Would it be appropriate to always use lai (as LeChevalier pionts out) in >reference to a class or group label? To me, I wonder if la >serinus.serinus.kanarias is the last canary or is really renaissance >painting named after the bird. It could be either. Names are conventions, and have no semantic importance. I can call my nonexistent dog la serinus.serinus.kanarias, or I could even adopt it as my own nickname. Lojban supports human perversity in naming %^) Note that I can also use a description as a name. If preceded by a name descriptor (la), it becomes similarly semantically null. "la barda cipni" is a character in the Muppets which cannot be described as "lo barda cipni" (that character could be described as "le barda cipni" which says that the description is meaningful, but not necessarily true. But whereas some person might acquire a nickname and be called "la barda cipni" by friends, it would be perverse to describe that person as "le barda cipni". >Has this been covered in the Wiki? I'm not very good at searching for >stuff like this. The wiki is not a tutorial. Chapter 6 of The Complete Lojban Language gives a pretty through description of Lojban sumti forms http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter6.html Chapters 1 and 2 of Nick and Robin's introductory lessons probably cover the material pretty well. http://ptolemy.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/book1.html lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org