From adam@pubcrawler.org Tue Mar 02 13:00:10 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from postal.seas.wustl.edu ([128.252.145.2]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1AyGzp-0005AW-Vi for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:00:10 -0800 Received: from clarion.cec.wustl.edu (clarion.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.3]) by postal.seas.wustl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i22L05s05610 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:00:06 -0600 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by clarion.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i22L03XX013509 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:00:03 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: clarion.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:00:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Translation of folk tale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Report: -2.7/5.0 ---- Start SpamAssassin results -2.70 points, 5 required; * -0.0 -- Has a valid-looking References header * 0.0 -- Message-Id indicates a non-spam MUA (Pine) * -0.4 -- Has a In-Reply-To header * -0.4 -- Has a X-Authentication-Warning header * -0.5 -- BODY: Contains what looks like an email attribution * 0.1 -- BODY: Odd Letter Triples with OJ * 0.0 -- BODY: {2}Letter - garbage - {1}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {2}Letter - garbage - {3}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {2}Letter - garbage - {4}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {2}Letter - garbage - {5}Letter * 0.6 -- BODY: {2}Letter - punctuation - {1}Letter * 0.6 -- BODY: {2}Letter - punctuation - {3}Letter * 0.6 -- BODY: {2}Letter - punctuation - {4}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {3}Letter - garbage - {1}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {4}Letter - garbage - {1}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {4}Letter - garbage - {3}Letter * 0.6 -- BODY: {4}Letter - punctuation - {1}Letter * 0.6 -- BODY: {4}Letter - punctuation - {3}Letter * 0.0 -- BODY: {5}Letter - garbage - {1}Letter * 0.6 -- BODY: {5}Letter - punctuation - {1}Letter * -4.7 -- BODY: Bayesian classifier says spam probability is 10 to 20% [score: 0.1445] * -0.4 -- BODY: Contains what looks like a quoted email text * 0.0 -- Reply with quoted text ---- End of SpamAssassin results X-archive-position: 553 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: adam@pubcrawler.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 melissa@fastanimals.com wrote: > > I'm trying to translate these Chinese folk tales from Lojban to English: > > http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/maxwell_tales > > Since it's short, here's the first one in its entirity: > > ************************* > ko'a goi lo tolcitno nanmu ge'ujo'u ko'e goi lo xasli po ko'a cu dzukla fo > lo dargu .i lo tolsi'a citno goi ko'i viska lu'a ko'a ce ko'e lu'u > nemo'izo'i .i ko'i ba'usku fi ko'a fe lu coidoi patfu ru'a be le xasli > .ionai li'u .i ko'a spuda ko'i lu coidoi seni'i bersa .io.ianai be mi li'u > ************************* > > My loose translation of the first three sentences: > > An old man mounted a donkey and travelled down the road. I'd say more that the old man and the donkey were walking down the road together. > A disrespectful young man saw the man and donkey approach. The young man > said to the old man "Hey Pops, your donkey sucks" (i.e., he does not respect > the donkey). Ahhh, but you're missing the "be". It's more "Hello, father (I assume) of the donkey (whom I disrespect)." The old man's response, then, is "In that case, hello, my son (whom I respect but disbelief)." > I'm having trouble making sense of the last line, in which the old man > responds. He says something to the effect of "Son, therefore you > respect/disbelieve me." But since this does not make much sense, I assume > I am missing something. Perhaps he is saying the equivalent of "I don't > believe you respect me," but that doesn't fit with my current > understanding of how attitudinal indicators work. > > I'm guessing that the attitudinal indicator is the sticking point. But > possibly I'm not fully understanding the role of be or the correct > application of seni'i. Or perhaps it's something else entirely. > > How would others translate the old man's response? > > -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also never met. (Russell Beland, Springfield)