From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Fri Mar 12 15:32:20 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.153]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B1w8a-0003cq-3j for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:32:20 -0800 Message-ID: <20040312233149.328.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.69.6.11] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:31:49 PST Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:31:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jorge "Llambías" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Story time To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040312175709.00ab59f0@pop.east.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 592 X-Approved-By: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners --- Nora LeChevalier wrote: > At 04:39 AM 3/12/04 -0800, la xorxes wrote: > > >Under the usual interpretation, the two negatives will cancel > >and {noda viska node} would be equivalent to {roda viska su'ode}, > >"everybody saw something". > > > >To say that nobody saw anything you'd have to say {noda viska su'ode} > >or {roda viska node}. > > No, "noda" means "there are zero things (da) such that", so "noda viska > node" means "there are zero x's and zero y's such that x sees y". I > thought it was a nifty way of saying "No one (yeah, sure) saw anything > (yeah, right)". Hmmm... The standard reading is: There are zero x's such that there are zero y's such that x sees y. In other words, no x is such that it sees no y's. In other words, every x sees at least one y. Having said that, I do prefer the "nobody saw nothing" reading, which we called "coordinate scope" in a recent discussion. Here you can find a lot of talk about this for those of you who are brave enough and interested: mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com