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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:37:30 +0200
From: robin <robin@bilkent.edu.tr>
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To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Brivla => sumti?
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Starling wrote:
> I've seen it said more than once that brivla are functions with a name
> (selbri) and arguments (sumti).  But a while ago I did learn the exact
> meaning of 'function' in programming, as it differs from the word
> 'subroutine'.  Functions can be evaluated to produce a value, that can
> then be used as an argument for another function.  Subroutines have no
> evaluated return value, although modern usage of the word tends to
> also include functions.
> 
> So my question is, can brivla be evaluated as a sumti?  That is, can I
> talk about how "John running through the store makes a mess for me to
> clean up?"
> 
> Just a rough guess...
> la djan bajra clama le zarci .i (?) rinka mi lumci
> 
> As in
> ( la djan bajra clama le zarci ) rinka ( mi lumci )
> 
> ju'ocu'i...
> 
> 
Well, it's "function" as in logic rather than computing, but I suppose 
the analogy is OK.

What you need for the sentence you have in mind is abstraction with 
"nu". What you want to refer to is _the event of_ John running through 
the store. Using the programming analogy, "nu" turns the brivla into a 
function returning a sumti.

One way of saying this would be:

le nu la djan. bajra klama fo le zarci cu rinka zo'e poi se lumci mi
[the event (John run-go with-route the store)] cause (something 
such-that is-cleaned by-me)

or avoiding "zo'e":

le nu la djan. bajra klama fo le zarci cu mukti le nu mi lumci ri
[the event (John run-go with-route the store)] motivate [the event (I 
clean it)]

(Note we can't use "rinka" here, since John's running can't physically 
cause me to clean the store.)

You can also use modals, e.g.

la djan. bajra veka'a le zarci .isemu'ibo mi lumci ri
(John run via-route the store) and-as-a-motivational-effect (I clean it)

robin.tr

-- 
"His youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, says one of the Dalai Lama's 
greatest finds of recent years was super-glue -- second, in fact, only 
to the more recent discovery of super-glue remover."

Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey

www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin