From robin@bilkent.edu.tr Thu Nov 04 13:14:40 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CPowJ-0007mi-Ec for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:14:40 -0800 Received: by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix, from userid 72) id 6A0EB33A8D; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:14:02 +0200 (EET) Received: from [139.179.111.112] (ppp112.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.112]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9905D26F7F for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:14:00 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <418A8FF0.7020904@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:24:16 +0200 From: robin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040914 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Question around beginner's chapter 4 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-archive-position: 857 X-Approved-By: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Yann Le Du wrote: > Hello, > > I'd like some explanation on the existence of, and difference between, > the following bridi : > > .i le ci le gerku cu blabi > > .i le ci lo gerku cu blabi > > .i lo ci lo gerku cu blabi > > .i lo ci le gerku cu blabi Unless my knowledge of Lojban has plummetted further than I thought since writing that chapter, you don't want double articles here. {le ci gerku} is "the three dogs", but {le ci} on its own means "the three" (e.g. the holy trinity or the three rings of the elf lords), so with {le ci le gerku} you have two sumti. This won't work with "blabi", which IIRC is a one-place predicate, but if we change the selbri it becomes clear. le ci gerku cu klama the three dogs go ci le gerku cu klama three of the dogs go le ci le gerku cu klama the three go to the dog > Also, it is mentioned in "the complete lojban language", p. 132, section > 8, that on can omit "lo" e.g. "ci lo gerku" => "ci gerku". So am I right > to conclude that "le ci gerku" is in fact the same as "le ci lo gerku" ? No, for the reasons stated above. {le ci lo gerku} means "the three, a dog" (using the malglico shorthand of "the" for "that which I call", and "a" for "that which really is"). robin.tr -- "His youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, says one of the Dalai Lama's greatest finds of recent years was super-glue -- second, in fact, only to the more recent discovery of super-glue remover." Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Universitesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin