From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Fri Dec 10 12:10:46 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41901.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.152]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ccr6D-0004PL-RY for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:10:46 -0800 Received: (qmail 35660 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Dec 2004 20:10:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20041210201015.35658.qmail@web41901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.49.74.2] by web41901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:10:15 PST Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:10:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jorge "Llambías" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: gismu for nationalities To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org In-Reply-To: <12d58c1604121011288c4b03b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 936 X-Approved-By: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners --- Adam COOPER wrote: > What is the rationale behind using gismu rather than cmene for > nationalities? They are predicates, so they should be brivla (whether gismu, lujvo or fu'ivla). They should probably be fu'ivla rather than gismu. {cmene} could be used for the names of countries, but to predicate a nationality it makes sense to use a brivla. > Or perhaps the better question is, given that this > decision was taken, how was it determined which nationalities got > gismu (porto) & which didn't (Nigeria, Vietnam, Italy?)? The bottom line: arbitrarily. Here is what CLL says on the subject: << Finally, there are the cultural gismu, which are also borrowed, but by modifying a word from one particular language, instead of using the multi-lingual gismu creation algorithm. Cultural gismu are used for words that have local importance to a particular culture; other cultures or languages may have no word for the concept at all, or may borrow the word from its home culture, just as Lojban does. In such a case, the gismu algorithm, which uses weighted averages, doesn't accurately represent the frequency of usage of the individual concept. Cultural gismu are not even required to be based on the six major languages. The six Lojban source languages: jungo Chinese (from ``Zhong1 guo2'') glico English xindo Hindi spano Spanish rusko Russian xrabo Arabic Seven other widely spoken languages that were on the list of candidates for gismu-making, but weren't used: bengo Bengali porto Portuguese baxso Bahasa Melayu/Bahasa Indonesia ponjo Japanese (from ``Nippon'') dotco German (from ``Deutsch'') fraso French (from ``Français'') xurdo Urdu (Urdu and Hindi began as the same language with different writing systems, but have now become somewhat different principally in borrowed vocabulary. Urdu-speakers were counted along with Hindi-speakers when weights were assigned for gismu-making purposes.) Countries with a large number of speakers of any of the above languages (where the meaning of ``large'' is dependent on the specific language): English: merko American brito British skoto Scottish sralo Australian kadno Canadian Spanish: gento Argentinian mexno Mexican Russian: softo Soviet/USSR vukro Ukrainian Arabic: filso Palestinian jerxo Algerian jordo Jordanian libjo Libyan lubno Lebanese misro Egyptian (from ``Mizraim'') morko Moroccan rakso Iraqi sadjo Saudi sirxo Syrian Bahasa Melayu/Bahasa Indonesia: bindo Indonesian meljo Malaysian Portuguese: brazo Brazilian Urdu: kisto Pakistani The continents (and oceanic regions) of the Earth: bemro North American (from ``berti merko'') dzipo Antarctican (from ``cadzu cipni'') ketco South American (from ``Quechua'') friko African polno Polynesian/Oceanic ropno European xazdo Asiatic A few smaller but historically important cultures: latmo Latin/Roman srito Sanskrit xebro Hebrew/Israeli xelso Greek (from ``Hellas'') Major world religions: budjo Buddhist dadjo Taoist muslo Islamic/Moslem xriso Christian A few terms that cover multiple groups of the above: jegvo Jehovist (Judeo-Christian-Moslem) semto Semitic slovo Slavic xispo Hispanic (New World Spanish) >> mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250