From mattarn@123.net Mon Dec 20 13:42:53 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from new.e-mol.com ([65.169.135.18] helo=mole.e-mol.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1CgVIr-00025d-C1 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:42:53 -0800 Received: from mail.123.net (new.e-mol.com [65.163.85.18]) by mole.e-mol.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id iBKLgpIP024092 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:42:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:42:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200412202142.iBKLgpIP024092@mole.e-mol.com> To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban-beginners] ni'ikri? In-Reply-To: <20041220195636.GC20429@chain.digitalkingdom.org> References: <200412201937.iBKJb4IP012739@mole.e-mol.com> <20041220195636.GC20429@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Priority: 3 X-From: mattarn@mail.123.net X-Originating-IP: [209.220.229.254] Content-Type: text/plain X-archive-position: 959 X-Approved-By: mattarn@123.net X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mattarn@123.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners >> At one point I want >> to say "All meaning and purpose are understood through personal >> reason and observation rather than second-hand testimony." >Dude, that's pretty hard-core. Seriously. I'd have to write at >least one lujvo to get through that sentence. Yeah, if you think that's hardcore try translating "progressive worldview." Heh. >> {.i fi piro lo te vajni .e lo mukti cu jimpe ma'i lo seni'ikri .e >> lo nu zgana seba'i lo se sitna} >"All reasons for importance [that's not "meaning"] pe'i It is, in this context. My existence is not a language spoken by someone, so the idea of interpretating it is incoherent. When the person on the street asks me "the meaning of my life" she/he is talking about "the reason(s) my life is important." This is yet another way that Lojban helps me clarify what I mean. >are subjects of understanding by the standard of result-beliefs >[seni'ikri is, prima facia, inherently contradictory; can you give a >full definition] In the word list you gave me for Supermemo, the {ja'o} entry reads "evidential: I conclude (cf. selni'i, ni'ikri)". Jbofi'e translates this as [1«2ni'ikri logically necessitating-believe-r(s)??»2]1 I coined {se ni'ikri} and it returned [1«2se ni'ikri logically necessitating-belief(s)??»2]1 So, I used it for a position, stance, assertion or conclusion that is logically compelled. I notice that {krici} is defined as "x1 believes [without evidence/proof] belief/creed x2 is true/assumed about subject x3. ["without evidence" refers to objective external evidence; also gives credence, has conviction]" I wasn't familiar with equating faith with all belief. If {krici} means faith, then ni'ikri is self-contradictory. Well then, what word means "x1 holds x2 to be true from objective external evidence"? I don't want {jinvi}, because "opinion" means an unsupported cockamamie conjecture based on flimsy or subjective evidence. >> * (Slightly off topic, how the heck do I translate the adjective >> "naturalistic," in the sense of no supernatural realm?) >I've always called that "materialistic". Huh. I think I'll use >that now. I would probably use marji or to'e mucti. Excellent, thanks. Do I want {si'o to'e mucti} to add the "-ism"? -la epcat _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com